I couldn't agree more. The techno dystopia talk seems more like techie ego to me. Closed source software, benign privacy intrusions, etc. are not the problems of the century and most people don't care not because they are ignorant but because these issues are smaller than we think.

These things are straightforwardly related though. It is very common among people who organized or were very active in summer 2020 anti-police violence protests to have caught charges in the last few years for completely unrelated things. Often very "routine" type harassment, fraud, low level drug stuff that would normally not ever be investigated without getting busted or reported.

Of course that's all benign coincidence I'm sure I'm just being paranoid. And of course your neighbors and community are doing fine, I'm sure mine are just more criminal. Nothing to worry about keep working on your thing.

> It is very common among people who organized or were very active in summer 2020 anti-police violence protests

> ..., fraud, low level drug stuff...

fraud has a specific victim, someone who was defrauded. plenty of folks are out there fighting against drug laws. you're not going to find a lot of folks helping you defend fraudsters.

> I'm sure mine are just more criminal

i don't think any of that makes your friends, or those protests, sound better.

We actually had a big thread about defending fraudsters a few days ago it was about wage theft though big difference I guess sorry you missed it.

Also notice where I didn't say they were convicted? Specifically in the fraud charge they were not.

From what I've heard on Darknet Diaries "wire fraud" and "mail fraud" seem to come up a lot in charges. "mail fraud" can be as little as putting something you're not allowed to mail into the mailbox or using a bogus return address. Pretending to not be yourself online can be "wire fraud" or accessing a computer or website you're not authorized to access (even if the website has trash security).

> accessing a computer or website you're not authorized to access (even if the website has trash security)

What does having "trash security" have anything to do with it?

In the real world do you look at a convenience stores and think "wow this store has such trash security, I can just take some things"?

In the "real world" if you walk past a convenience store that looks open, its automatic front doors slide open, lights are on etc, and you go in and look around... do you think you're committing some sort of "fraud" because the owner says it's actually closed and you forgot to scrutinize the posted hours? I don't think most people would agree.

And that's what I would call "trash security" and the owner's own damn fault if they're upset that people walked in and looked around.

Let's be more precise with the analogy.

I don't think anyone has ever been convicted of wire fraud for looking around the store front, as in your analogy. Please cite a case if I'm wrong. I'm sympathetic to this cause.

But in the digital world and the real world there's a door called 'Employees Only' that goes to the back. In many stores in the real world, it's not even clearly labeled, people just have enough sense to not go back there or it's considered trespassing and unwelcome.

> And that's what I would call "trash security" and the owner's own damn fault if they're upset that people walked in and looked around.

When this happens in the real world we (as in most of society) think "Doesn't this guy have any common sense?". "Oh wow, this guy is the reason we have to put DO NOT DRINK on the bleach bottle - apparently if there's no sign then people will just do it"

> . It is very common among people who organized or were very active in summer 2020 anti-police violence protests to have caught charges in the last few years for completely unrelated things.

I participated in these protests, as did many of my friends and community. Nothing happened to them such as you describe.

So no, I don't believe you.

Oh, well ok then.

you can just look at the news coming out of atlanta right now.

Wondering what makes you think your belief, experience, or recounting of either (truthful or otherwise) would be credible enough to be worth enunciating.

I could just as easily say I had a bunch of friends who were targeted. I could tell you I spent time at a black site held by feds who wouldn't identify themselves or their agency. So obviously anecdotes here in this context carry no value.

What is more believable and trustworthy is the investigative reporting that clearly states that what giraffe_lady et al. have been saying is closer to the truth than your tiny (and statistically probably white and/or middle-to-upper class, considering you have an account here -- obviously not a threat to the status quo and so quite low on the list of targets for state-sanctioned kidnapping) bubble's experience, faithfully represented or otherwise.

I guess what I'm saying is basically what ends up being the appropriate response to the problem always on this site: you don't know the extent of what you don't know, so more than a little humility is warranted here, particularly in the face of real reporting by real journalists.

What makes it worth saying is that I was actually trying to give helpful feedback to those in your position. Here's the first paragraph again:

>You should know that this type of argument is likely to hurt your own position when delivered to a moderate middle. You're basically telling people to ignore what they see and hear around them, and to believe that not only is the end coming - it has already come and we are living in a dystopia.

And based on how much traction your movement is getting, a lot of people either agree with me or don't think it's enough of a problem to actually do anything about it.

You're welcome to continue being frustrated and shouting in the ether that we're just ignorant and don't know any better despite our personal experiences. Or maybe you can revisit the core pillars of your rhetoric and find more convincing arguments to advance your movement.

And btw, I'm not white and the people with my skin color were enslaved to build railroads and placed in internment camps during WWII. So I think I have a pretty good grasp as to what's at stake.

That's a long way to argue against anecdote in favor of evidence, but the fact is that as you can see from this whole thread... people are short on evidence. People are offering anecdotes, conspiracy theories, and the old "isn't it obvious" line.

Anecdote is sufficient to dismiss that.

Any charges for sexual assault against children?

Wait, are you saying that criminals participated in anti-police violence? Correlation is not causation.

Opposite, I'm saying people who participated in those protests are being targeted by police. Virtually everyone does some illegal things, if they really want you they can get you for something. Police surveillance and police violence are done by the same police.

And they'd never done anything illegal, or been caught for it before? Amazing.

Isn't it just?

That's of course complete nonsense. Everyone is absolutely not doing illegal things you can go to jail for. Your examples included harassment and fraud like that is something normal people engage in. You're defending criminals and at the same time unwittingly saying that only criminals participated in the protests. Says a lot about you and your friends.

of course of course

Weird.

The thing you claim to be an activist for happens hardly ever, comparing the number of engagements citizens have with police.

The violation of your rights described on the slippery slope here is happening to everyone all the time.

You aren't concerned because it has not impacted you in a way that you perceive. It has impacted you, but you fail to draw the connection.

Government and police agencies breaking the law and ignoring the constitution is bad for America. The fact they hide this and other techniques is further evidence.