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Re:A Proto-Pizza Emerges from a Fresco on a Pompeii Wall by moritz on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @06:13AM (#36504484)
You can use commercial yeast, but it will never be as light as with sourdough fermentation, but very dense and “soggy”.

There are more factors at play here but the tldr is that, other than wheat, rye flour contains a very high level of amylase, an enzyme that breaks starches into sugars. Amylase prevents bread from rising, and rye contains so much of it that it stays active even with the high temperatures of baking. Add that to the fact that rye has very little gluten to hold up the structure of the bread…

That‘s where sourdough comes into play. The acids produced during a slow fermentation slow down the reaction of amylase, giving you a lighter bread. For a good rye bread, I ferment for over 24h in three steps.

Re:A Proto-Pizza Emerges from a Fresco on a Pompeii Wall by OJFord on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @09:48AM (#36506430)
Is that a lot? I ferment my regular wheat bread for over 24h. (Started some off this morning as it happens, will likely bake it tomorrow evening.)
Re:A Proto-Pizza Emerges from a Fresco on a Pompeii Wall by datavirtue on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @03:14PM (#36511172)
Any self-reapecting pizzeria will cold ferment for three days before attempting to make pizzas with it.
Re:A Proto-Pizza Emerges from a Fresco on a Pompeii Wall by OJFord on Wednesday June 28, 2023 @05:33PM (#36512902)
I think/thought this thread had devolved into 'regular' loaf bread - indeed my pizza dough spends at least a day in the fridge after a slightly shorter time 'bulk' outside.

Interesting you say that though, because I find three days about the limit, starts to really over-ferment, becoming really 'pockety', even at refrigeration temperatures. I suppose if I did it all in there as you imply, no fermentation time at room temp. at all, that might be better?

Re:A Proto-Pizza Emerges from a Fresco on a Pompeii Wall by eru on Thursday June 29, 2023 @02:52AM (#36517235)
How much salt are you adding? How cold is your fridge?

How active is your sourdough starter? Commercial yeast by contrast tends to be very active, so timings are shorter.

Re:A Proto-Pizza Emerges from a Fresco on a Pompeii Wall by eru on Thursday June 29, 2023 @02:51AM (#36517230)
Correct timing depends a lot on temperature and how much salt you add to your dough.
Re:A Proto-Pizza Emerges from a Fresco on a Pompeii Wall by OJFord on Thursday June 29, 2023 @02:57AM (#36517261)
Sure, I was just questioning the implication that 24h 'because rye' was a lot really. (Or if that was the the implication.)
Re:A Proto-Pizza Emerges from a Fresco on a Pompeii Wall by moritz on Thursday June 29, 2023 @03:49AM (#36517622)
No, I just meant to say sourdough fermentation is slower than a quick rise enabled by commercial yeast. Though I do ferment rye breads longer than wheat, and with a rye bread, you would also usually sour more of the bread, like up to 50% of total flour amount.

That said, I think they cultivate newer rye varieties to be less rich with enzymes. I presume that is to meet the requirements of industrial baking.