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Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible by danso on Thursday June 22, 2023 @01:33PM (#36435752)
I'm not a physics expert, but sound seems to travel for long distances extremely well underwater. So even if they have a buoy at 1000 ft, hearing a loud sudden sound at 10000 feet (the sub's last communication was 1h45m into a roughly 2hr descent) would not require "sci-fi" physics?

[0] https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explorations/16challenger/wel...

Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible by psychphysic on Thursday June 22, 2023 @01:47PM (#36435968)
Yes because if you have a buoy there you need one everywhere...

Doesn't matter, I was curious why people were speculating this and that's clarified.

You believe that USN would detect this, and it's not motivated by any factor in the story. And a conspiracy to cover up capabilities is the only way you can sustain that belief.

Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible by jerf on Thursday June 22, 2023 @02:26PM (#36436587)
I am a bit mystified at your apparent belief that the military has any obligation to proactively tell anybody anything, or find it shocking that a military would ever hide things from anybody, to the point that you would attack people claiming that they might do so.

Are you aware that there is, in fact, a such thing as "classified" information? If you'll pardon me linking to that hotbed of conspiratorial thinking, the Cornell Law School, here's some of the basic, completely open, law covering such things: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/798

Where on Earth do you get the idea that everyone in the world is operating in a regime where they tell you everything you want to know simply because you want to know it?

You are operating at personally dangerous levels of naivety, like, levels that are going to cost you money when you fall for a big scam because you thought someone was just informing you of a great money-making opportunity, as everyone always does when they find a way to make money. Or worse. You're light years beyond "rejecting conspiracy theories", you're operating on a Theory of Mind that has no visible correspondence to the real world. This is not how the world works. People and organizations do not rush to reveal everything they are, everything they can do, everything they know, to everybody, all the time, for free, simply because it would be really nice, and the military least of all!

Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible by psychphysic on Thursday June 22, 2023 @02:45PM (#36436862)
You're misreading me.

I asked what about that link made them think that. The answer nothing.

They were making up explanations about how to maintain a pre-existing belief.

Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible by jerf on Thursday June 22, 2023 @04:23PM (#36438343)
A fully justified, well-established pre-existing belief, not one that they just pulled out of the blue. Mere "pre-belief" is not intrinsically bad, certain sloppy and popular statements to the contrary.
Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible by jerf on Friday June 23, 2023 @10:31AM (#36447299)
Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible by danso on Thursday June 22, 2023 @02:13PM (#36436384)
Here's my question for you:

Let's assume that in our current reality, U.S. agencies did not detect an anomalous sound. So what we've observed is how they would operate if they had zero foreknowledge or data other than the initial report to the Coast Guard.

Now imagine the alternate scenario in which Navy or NOAA buoys pick up a suspicious sound near the Titanic. There might be a flurry of U.S. gov activity (e.g. communication between NOAA, the military, and intelligence agencies) to make sure it's not a Russian sub, but that would be completely hidden to the public, and for all we know, is something that happens relatively routinely.

In this alternate scenario, what would change about how the Navy, Coast Guard, or any other U.S. official has responded? Coast Guard rescue ships would still conduct search-and-rescue, the Navy would still send a deep sea salvage ship. You honestly think the Navy would volunteer information about an intelligence report that, as far as they know, may or may not be related to a now-missing civilian sub?

Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible by psychphysic on Thursday June 22, 2023 @02:28PM (#36436618)
In the second scenario the Russell's teapot satellite the Soviets put into space would have picked up the uptick in US military Comms.

Maybe they kept it quiet to not reveal the satellite was still operational? I doubt it given the current situation, mostly likely it'd be all over telegram and we'd have known about it.

Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible by danso on Thursday June 22, 2023 @02:34PM (#36436707)
What would that have to do with anything?
Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible by psychphysic on Thursday June 22, 2023 @03:00PM (#36437078)
Russell's teapot is a criticism of non-falsifiable claims

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot#Analysis

Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible by danso on Thursday June 22, 2023 @06:37PM (#36440132)
Ok, but for posterity’s sake, the Navy has now said that they did in fact hear the implosion:

https://archive.is/pSpem

> The Navy began listening for the Titan almost as soon as the sub lost communications, according to a U.S. defense official. Shortly after its disappearance, the U.S. system detected what it suspected was the sound of an implosion near the debris site discovered Thursday and reported its findings to the commander on site, U.S. defense officials said.

Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible by psychphysic on Friday June 23, 2023 @02:59AM (#36443710)
Don't you think it's weird how you'd thought it'd be secret capability and never disclosed.

Instead they leaked it once the debris was found?

Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible by danso on Friday June 23, 2023 @05:05AM (#36444464)
LOL. C'mon man, you're the only one here who thought this was some kind of super secret capability. My entire premise is that this was a logically foregone conclusion based on what we know of their decades-old systems and the laws of physics with respect to how sound travels in water.

As for why they revealed their foreknowledge now? I don't speak for the military, but admitting to it vaguely, well after the fact is a significantly different situation than talking about it at the time and making it actionable intelligence. Furthermore, something may have leaked to a journalist, who then pressed them to make some kind of answer.

Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible by psychphysic on Friday June 23, 2023 @07:33AM (#36445435)
After debris was found, had Elon Musk twitter "SpaceX detected the original implosion at the debris site".

What conclusions would you draw?

Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible by giantrobot on Thursday June 22, 2023 @06:00PM (#36439680)
Sound reflects off thermoclines. If there's a thermocline at say 1000ft and you have a hydrophone at 900ft, a sound originating at 1500ft will reflect off the thermocline and won't be detected by the 900ft hydrophone above the thermocline (frictionless pulleys and spherical cow assumptions).