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Re:Noam Chomsky on Language, Left Libertarianism, and Progress by dragonwriter on Sunday June 18, 2023 @09:29PM (#36386295)
> If West reacted in 2008 how they react now - we could have saved 100s of thousand of people AND avoided 2 wars and billions in military and humanitarian spending.

Yes, had NATO rebuffed Russia’s lies about its peaceful intentions in the region and its protestations of the destabilizing effect of extending MAPs to Ukraine and Georgia and extended both countries MAPs and interim security guarantees in 2008, the sequence of Russia-initiated wars that began immediately after they succeeded in tricking NATO would not have occurred. That is eminently clear in retrospect; Russia was trying to buy breathing room for intervention, and succeeded.

To be fair, that was far from clear prospectively at the time; it wasn’t like Hitler overtly seeking the Sudetenland after the Anschluss: aggressive expansionism hadn’t been telegraphed, and it wasn’t a “give them a bit, and they won’t take more” situation. The people who made the wrong choices in 2008 weren’t in the position as the people arguing for appeasement today, despite the last 15 years of history.

Re:Noam Chomsky on Language, Left Libertarianism, and Progress by ajuc on Monday June 19, 2023 @02:15AM (#36387853)
It was clear to everybody in Eastern Europe. See:

> Poland's Lech Kaczyński in August 2008 traveled to Tbilisi together with the presidents of Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia to show solidarity with Georgia in the face of Russia's invasion of that country, according to accounts by officials.

> He said at the time: "Today Georgia, tomorrow Ukraine, the day after tomorrow the Baltic states, and then, perhaps, the time will come for my country, Poland."

https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/7785/artykul/2353833,11-year...

Re:Noam Chomsky on Language, Left Libertarianism, and Progress by dragonwriter on Monday June 19, 2023 @12:14PM (#36392758)
Its true Eastern European NATO members have been more cautious of. Russia, but its worth noting this was a response to the invasion of Georgia and I was referring to decisions at NATO prior.