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Re:Kill Math by jacobolus on Saturday February 25, 2012 @04:05AM (#3632574)
> (1+1/x)^x limited to infinity is the definition of e

This shouldn’t be “memorized” as a “fact” though. As you point out, it’s the very definition of e. Which is to say, to really understand what the exponential function means implies building up a mental model about lim [n→∞] (1 + x/n)^n and its behavior, interacting with it, connecting it to other functions, seeing what happens when you combine it with other ideas: trying to integrate/differentiate it; noticing how it reacts to fourier transform; relating it to rotations, areas, imaginary numbers; writing it as a taylor expansion or continued fraction, or with a functional equation, or as the solution to a differential equation. Connecting it to derived functions such as e.g. the normal distribution, or sine, or hyperbolic sine. Generalizing it to an operation on complex numbers, or quaternions, or matrices. Thinking about what exponentiation in general really means. Coming up with algorithms for computing e’s decimal expansion or proving that e is irrational and transcendental. Solving problems with it, like to start with, continuously compounded interest (&c. &c. &c.).

No one who had really learned about exponentials in a deep way would easily forget that this is the definition of e, and that has nothing to do with lists of facts or rote memorization.

> Single-character symbols (and multiple character symbols) that not only hide tons of meaning through a dereference, which is naturally how language works, that also suggest a meaning themselves, are stupid and promote natural diseased human thinking.

I think you should try writing out some very difficult complex math proofs before you make this assertion (say, for instance, a proof . Things are bad enough when we pack ideas down. Start expanding them in the middle of the computation, and it the steps become almost impossible to see or reason about.

The whole point of assigning things short simple names is that it gives a clear analogy (to past experience w/ the conventions) that provide a shortcut to anticipating how particular types of structures and operations behave. Cramming a matrix or a multivariate function or an operator down into a single symbol helps us to treat that symbol as a black box for the purpose of the proof or problem, which helps us bring our existing mathematical tools and understandings to bear. Sometimes, we run afoul of false impressions, as when we apply intuition about the real numbers to matrices in ways that don’t quite apply, or intuition about metric spaces to general topological spaces, &c. But this is I think an unavoidable cost, and it’s why we strive to be careful and precise in making mathematical arguments.

Re:Kill Math by robrenaud on Saturday February 25, 2012 @02:23PM (#3633625)
The way people think and conceptualize ideas varies greatly for different people. Even for things as basic as counting, people do it in different ways.

http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2010/07/12/read-listen-or-comprehend...

> What’s interesting is that the pattern varies from person to person. Feynman shared his discovery with a group of people, one of whom (John Tukey) had a curiously different experience: while counting steadily, he could easily speak aloud, but could not read. Through experimenting and comparing their experiences, it seemed to them that they were using different cognitive processes to accomplish the task of counting time. Feynman was “hearing” the numbers in his head, while Tukey was “seeing” the numbers go by.

So while pushing around abstract symbols might be the way that you really grok things, I don't think this applies to everyone. I have an undergrad math minor, and the only math class that I didn't get an A in and that I really struggled with was Linear Algebra.

I think it mostly had to due with excessive symbolic abstraction. Matrix notation still really troubles me. About 5 years after that Linear Algebra class that I struggled with, I was took a computer graphics class for a masters degree. We were talking about the non-invertibility of some operation (I think it was about figuring out how far something was away given a 2d rendering of a 3d scene, where you have a degree of freedom in the scale, everything could be twice as large and twice as far away). And that gave me a really intuitive understanding between matrix invertibility and full rank matrices. I am sure that I would have done much better in a combined Linear Algebra/Computer Graphics class than I did in just the mostly symbolic and proof based Linear Algebra class.

So be careful in believing that the thought processes that obviously work well for you will also work well for others.

Re:Kill Math by glogla on Saturday February 25, 2012 @05:00PM (#3633954)
Traditional way of teaching linear algebra is very abstract. But that's ok, or at least we use linear algebra in our CS programme as a way to teach abstract thinking, which is important for this subject.

I would suggest that someone who has trouble (serious trouble that is) with linear algebra might have also trouble with other abstract things in computer science, like automata theory or grammars and compilers.

Re:Kill Math by secoif on Saturday February 25, 2012 @07:05PM (#3634282)
I had the same experience, i struggle understanding problems where i can't see concrete examples of cause and effect. Though I believe the problem was that I simply didn't "bother" to understand because it was "hard".
Re:Kill Math by TeMPOraL on Saturday February 25, 2012 @05:28AM (#3632660)
Single symbols are ok, but why do they have to be denoted by a single letter? There's a reason why using single-letter (or two, or three-letter) variables is discouraged in programming in favour of longer, descriptive names. It's to avoid the moments in which you start wondering, in the middle of reading a function, 'why q has to be greater than k-1? And what the hell is this Q(p) anyway?'. I really don't understand why both math and physics are so into one-character symbols. Even the OP's Bayes theorem example shows that it's easier to read a formula, when the symbol names self-evaluate to their meaning.
Re:Kill Math by crntaylor on Saturday February 25, 2012 @06:26AM (#3632724)
A lot of the time when doing math, you literally don't want to know what a particular symbol stands for - you just want to manipulate the symbols abstractly. Too much interpretation can interfere with the process of pattern recognition that is essential for doing mathematics well. You also see this in programming whenever someone writes

    public interface List<T> { ... }
in Java, or when you write

    Tree a = Empty | Branch a (Tree a) (Tree a)
in Haskell. It doesn't matter what 'T' and 'a' are, so we use short, one-character representations for them. The fact that you can write Bayes rule as P(A|B) = P(A)P(B|A)/P(B) (where I've even used a zero-character representation for the background information!) expresses the fact that A and B can be arbitrary events, and don't need to have any connection to hypotheses, models or data. It just happens one of the applications of Bayes rule is in fitting scientific hypotheses to data.

This question at math.stackexchange.com goes into a little more detail: http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/24241/why-do-mathema...

Re:Kill Math by surrealize on Sunday February 26, 2012 @01:14AM (#3634977)
Even in your example, multi-character names are used for Branch, Empty, Tree, and List. And those are much more helpful than single-character names would be.

Plus, the math tradition of one-character variable names means that they've had to adopt several different alphabets just to get enough identifier uniqueness (greek, hebrew, etc., plus specialized symbols like the real, natural, and integer number set symbols). Which makes all that stuff a pain to type. And even then, there are still identifier collisions where different sub-disciplines have different conventions for the meaning of a particular character.

It's also annoying because single-character names are impossible to google for.

Re:Kill Math by crntaylor on Monday February 27, 2012 @04:00AM (#3638293)
We would use multi-character names for Branch, Empty and Tree because it matters what those things represent. It would be thoroughly confusing if we instead wrote

    t a = e | b a (t a) (t a)
However, we don't care what the 'a' represents. It's just a placeholder for an arbitrary piece of information. If we had to write

    Tree someData = Empty | Branch someData (Tree someData) (Tree someData)
then we have just introduced a lot of unnecessary line noise.

One difference between programming and mathematics is that programming is mostly interpreted in context, when it matters that this double represents elapsed time, and this double represents dollars in my checking account. Mathematics, on the other hand, is mostly interpreted out of context. I don't care what a represents, all I care about is that it enjoys the relationship ab = ba with some other arbitrary object b.

If the mantra of programming is "names are important" then the mantra of mathematics might be "names aren't important".

Re:Kill Math by surrealize on Monday February 27, 2012 @05:04AM (#3638432)
Sure, your original example with single-letter type variables makes sense to me, since those variables could represent anything. I never meant to object to those. I just wanted to point out the fact that your example also included multi-letter names, while mathematics generally does not.

So if you really don't care what a variable represents, then I'd agree that a single-letter name is fine. Given that math is almost universally done with single-letter variable names, are you suggesting that in math you almost never care what a variable represents? This wikipedia article makes me think otherwise; clearly, variables often have a fairly specific meaning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_letters_used_in_mathemati...

Re:Kill Math by TeMPOraL on Saturday February 25, 2012 @07:13AM (#3632772)
Ok, this is a good reason, though I'm don't think it covers all the use cases, in particular on the borderline between math and physics. But yes, I can see how in programming, knowing what the variable really represents is usually helpful, while in math might usually be not.

Thanks for the link, there are some good thoughts there.

Re:Kill Math by kbolino on Saturday February 25, 2012 @10:09AM (#3633068)
Part of the reason why single-letter variable names persist may be due to multiplication. There is no good symbol for multiplication; the two most common ones, × and ∙ are easily mistaken for other symbols (x and . respectively) when improperly typeset or handwritten (the distinction is easier with proper typography and neater handwriting, of course).

The way most mathematicians ignore this problem is by throwing two variable names next to each other, so xy is x times y. Obviously, this system is incompatible with multiple-letter variable names. I have unfortunately seen the two concepts mixed, which makes reading an equation like reading ancient Greek or Latin (which lacked spaces and punctuation).

Until there is a commonly accepted, easily distinguishable symbol for multiplication, I don't see single-letter variables going anywhere, or multiple-letter variables being used in general mathematics.

Re:Kill Math by frtizo on Saturday February 25, 2012 @02:22PM (#3633619)
Short variable names are useful when structure is more important than concrete interpretation. For example, consider the above definition of e (aka EulersConstant): e = lim x->inf (1 - 1/x)^x = limit( compoundingSegmentsPerYear, INFINITY, pow(1 - 1 / compoundingSegmentsPerYear, compoundingSegmentsPerYear))

We could obfuscate further by XML replacement parentheses: <sum> <term>1</term> <term> <quotient>...</quotient> </term> </sum> But the structure is more important, right?