All the Single Ladies – Men floundering, women most affected

Re:All the Single Ladies – Men floundering, women most affected by scarmig on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:29PM (#36317706)

As a bi man, the dynamics of dating men and women are very different. It ranges from the very explicit (you must plan the date; you must pay for the date) to the comparatively subtle (you must be emotionally stoic and not show too much vulnerability; you must have a stable, well-paying job; you must be "confident"). These things aren't standards you would be subject to in a purely platonic relationship. It's not even so much those things making you "hot" but those being prerequisites to being considered a potential partner.

Gay men are much less strict about demanding a performance of the male gender role (except for those elements of it relating to physique).

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Re:All the Single Ladies – Men floundering, women most affected by timeagain on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:43PM (#36317898)

That’s true I might be biased by hanging with women who hang with gay men. It is also true that women perpetuate these dumb stereotypes of masculinity as well.

The kicker for me is how these dynamics ruin the ability for men and women to become friends. Like you say, these wouldn’t be issues in a platonic relationship. But this cloud of expectation looms over any straight-platonic friendship between men and women. How the relationship would have to change if it became romantic.

Makes me glad I’m gay.

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Re:All the Single Ladies – Men floundering, women most affected by monksy on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @06:16PM (#36318362)

> It is also true that women perpetuate these dumb stereotypes of masculinity as well.

The ones who are complaining that men lack emotional maturity or inteligence are the same ones that will post on 2xc and say: "Am I a bad person for dumping a guy because I saw him crying and I'm no longer attracted to him?"

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Re:All the Single Ladies – Men floundering, women most affected by archagon on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @09:57PM (#36320410)

Actually, they are probably not the same people at all.

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Re:All the Single Ladies – Men floundering, women most affected by abracadaniel on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @12:03AM (#36321287)

You can’t judge behavior of any group based on anonymous internet posts. When you run into the crazy person on the bus, it’s important to realize there’s a bus load of people around them that aren’t crazy. The internet just helps get all of them concentrated into the same place.

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Re:All the Single Ladies – Men floundering, women most affected by scarmig on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:51PM (#36318042)

Straight folk have lots to learn from gay folk. Probably starting with how to do marriage right[0].

[0] https://www.advocate.com/people/2020/2/13/study-gay-people-h...

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Re:All the Single Ladies – Men floundering, women most affected by lostmsu on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @06:02PM (#36318196)

The study can not be accessed without payment, but if they did not correctly control for kids, it is useless.

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Re:All the Single Ladies – Men floundering, women most affected by scarmig on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @06:09PM (#36318275)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6731029/

> Covariates. We control for covariates that are likely associated with both psychological distress and marital strain including respondent age, education, and employment status (Mirowsky & Ross, 2003), spouse health status (Kiecolt-Glaser & Wilson, 2017), relationship duration (Proulx et al., 2007), and children in household (Mirowsky & Schieman, 2008).

So at least they attempted to account for obvious covariates.

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Re:All the Single Ladies – Men floundering, women most affected by UncleMeat on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @06:25PM (#36318470)

This is my favorite kind of scientific criticism. People who can't even access a paper just saying "well I bet they didn't control for obvious thing X" and then moving on.

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Re:All the Single Ladies – Men floundering, women most affected by lostmsu on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @07:18PM (#36319004)

This is my favorite kind of personal attacks. Never have I said "they did not control", but here you are.

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Re:All the Single Ladies – Men floundering, women most affected by UncleMeat on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @08:14PM (#36319518)

Not a personal attack. A criticism of the content of your post.

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Re:All the Single Ladies – Men floundering, women most affected by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @10:29PM (#36320679)

> Never have I said "they did not control"

They didn’t make this claim.

> "well I bet they didn't control for obvious thing X"

Is a close paraphrase of

> if they did not correctly control for kids, it is useless

The comment seems to be intended as a dismissal while calling itself out as uninformed (“cannot be accessed without payment” suggests it wasn’t accessed).

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Re:All the Single Ladies – Men floundering, women most affected by lostmsu on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @07:27PM (#36319104)

They did, but the study does not make the same conclusion as the article you linked.

TBH I am not familiar with the the way data is presented in this last link, and likely biased toward my own expectations, but my uneducated read of table 2 says that children, education, being a woman, and employment status are the largest contributors to the distress.

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