News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by bun_at_work on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @12:21PM (#36312509)
It's always interesting to see how people engage with new technologies on HN. For example, here you note 3 things that LLMs are known for, but not all the things they are known for. Instead you conveniently leave out the positive benefits of these models that are causing people to promote them.

Further, the narrative you paint suggests that no one in government is competent in anything and can only follow directions.

Finally, you combine the heavily biased perspectives you took and proposed that it would lead to a massive scandal in the government, but not just any scandal, one that is actually a coordinated attack BY MICROSOFT to screw the government, their largest customer.

Just interesting to see.

Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by sorokod on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @12:38PM (#36312857)
Perhaps an equivalent of "risk aversion", negative implications outweigh the positive ones even if the count of either is the same.
Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by courseofaction on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @12:37PM (#36312840)
The bias will be by design and known to the purchaser.
Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by sottol on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @01:20PM (#36313476)
But is that really what you want to happen IN GOVERNMENT? For bureaucracy to adapt even mildly flawed technology?! Bureaucracy + blind trust in hierarchy/computers = Kafka-esque hellscape.

"I'm sorry sir, but the computer clearly says that you've been charged with sexual harassment - we cannot renew your driver's license and we're putting you on the sexual offenders list, please report to your local PD weekly." (completely made up and exaggerated, but I'm sure one can think of similar scenarios) [1] Good luck convincing the clerk that that's not real. You can probably get it corrected after months of your time and $$.

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/04/05/chatgpt...

Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by okennedy on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @03:16PM (#36315442)
Things are bad enough already, even with pre-LLM technology. "I'm sorry sir, your 8-year old son can't board this plane because the system says he's a terrorist" [1].

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/nyregion/14watchlist.html

Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by adventured on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @03:27PM (#36315600)
You're using a straw example to try to claim a massive point.

There are 340 million people in the US. The US has one of the largest government systems that humanity is likely to ever see. How many similar cases of children being put on the terrorist watch list have there been in the past 20 years? Unless there are a lot of cases of that happening, if it's not rare (hint: it's extraordinarily rare; your example story is from 13 years ago), your premise is pure straw.

Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by jhncls on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @03:52PM (#36315964)
Wouldn't being innocently jailed for 9 days because of a wrong face recognition count as another example?

[0]: https://www.wired.com/story/face-recognition-software-led-to... [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/27/california-p...

Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by CDT-MLT on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @06:18PM (#36318389)
Jesus Christ
Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by replygirl on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @06:28PM (#36318498)
An example against adoption of larger, more generalized, and less reliable models, yes
Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by romwell on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @04:03PM (#36316139)
>"I'm sorry sir, but the computer clearly says that you've been charged with sexual harassment - we cannot renew your driver's license and we're putting you on the sexual offenders list, please report to your local PD weekly."

>(completely made up and exaggerated, but I'm sure one can think of similar scenarios)

How about "I'm sorry sir, but the computer clearly says that you've been at the site of murder and thus killed this guy. Even though all other direct evidence contradicts this, we're gonna have to arrest you. "[1]

The best part of working on projects that used that data set in Google was learning about it from articles like this one.

[1]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7897319/Police-arre...

Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by parker_mountain on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @01:34PM (#36313686)
> you conveniently leave out the positive benefits of these models that are causing people to promote them

We are holding it to a higher standard because this is going to be used by agencies with serious power over people's lives. It is not just to spit out, for example, a form rejection letter from a credit card.

And, nobody thinks that Microsoft wants to "screw" the government. But if something happens, the impact can be magnified significantly considering the reach and power of the state. I'm all for moving forward quickly with this tech, but there are a handful of spaces (government, medicine, aeronautics) where we need to be extremely deliberate.

Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by williamcotton on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @02:21PM (#36314523)
“We”? I’m sorry, you don’t speak for everyone. You’re positioning yourself like you’re aligned with a mass of people who are objectively correct and homogenous in their opinions.

This behavior is illiberal.

Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by birdyrooster on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @02:34PM (#36314735)
We being the people upvoting the GP comment. Lol you really read into that.
Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by jchw on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @02:08PM (#36314227)
Not really that interesting, it's pretty much always what people do when the potential upside of something is limited but the potential disastrous consequences are basically limitless.
Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by InCityDreams on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @02:12PM (#36314311)
Well, if government*s can't even use MS excel correct, this is going to be soooo much fun.

I feel for my kids, and all I can do is warn them...

https://theconversation.com/excel-errors-the-uk-government-h...

Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by Solvency on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @03:10PM (#36315330)
GPT is an incredible productivity tool for people who are informed about it and understand its limitations and use it wisely and responsibly.

The vast majority of government workers are underpaid apathetic cogs in a machine who do not fit this bill.

We just saw a LAWYER use hallucinated information in his practice. A lawyer who is ostensibly rigorously trained and tested in his field.

The amount of misuse of GPT by way of sheer ignorance alone by the government will be astounding.

Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by burnished on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @03:32PM (#36315668)
Theres already precedent with police and judiciary misusing technology they don't understand, I suspect the underlying issue is that this person would not trust government employees generally with a tool that issues false positives and requires discretions.
Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by romwell on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @03:57PM (#36316041)
>you note 3 things that LLMs are known for, but not all the things they are known for. Instead you conveniently leave out the positive benefits of these models that are causing people to promote them.

When talking about the pitfalls of bringing GPT-4 as a tool for government officials, the positive features are outside of the scope.

Obviously they exist, otherwise it wouldn't be proposed. But it's not our job to do a sales pitch for GPT-4.

>Further, the narrative you paint suggests that no one in government is competent in anything and can only follow directions.

No. The OP suggests that the primary users of the tool would be low-level, underpaid officials, who are mostly following directions.

Not because it's their fault as human beings - but because their positions require them to do so, and perhaps for good reasons.

In any case, direction-followers (of questionable competence and low pay grade) make up the bulk of large organizations in general as a consequence of growth. Which is why the tool is being pitched in the first place: to streamline work of people who would rather not do it in the first place.

>Finally, you combine the heavily biased perspectives you took and proposed that it would lead to a massive scandal in the government, b

As if the governments aren't prone to massive scandals even without GPT-4 in place. Try checking the news today, you may be surprised.

>not just any scandal, one that is actually a coordinated attack BY MICROSOFT to screw the government, their largest customer.

"By Microsoft" wasn't in OP's statement. Manipulating data and statistics to get the desired outcome from seemingly impartial algorithms is something our government has been engaging in for a very, very long time.

Redlining[1] and gerrymandering[2] are just two prime examples.

We don't have to make any assumptions or apply biased perspectives to say that we expect:

1)Training data to be manipulated by entities with interest in influencing the outcome;

2)Lives of countless people being adversely affected, and

3)There being a massive scandal as a result.

The government has a long track history of 1, 2, and 3 happening any time a system is introduced which lacks transparency, and large language models are the epitome of that.

The only unrealistic thing about OP's statement is that a scandal will actually happen, instead of people getting away with it.

>It's always interesting to see how people engage with new technologies on HN.

And it is even more interesting to see how people here engage with ethics.

[1]https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/17/realestate/what-is-redlin...

[2]https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/gerr...

Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by TX81Z on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @06:28PM (#36318503)
Meanwhile I know of highly skilled engineers in FEDGOV who not only experiment with the APIs for hobby projects but could give a very good lecture on how they work, their limitations, and affordances.

But hey, I guess all those dumb dumbs at NASA can’t tie their shoelaces.

Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by dontupvoteme on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @06:46PM (#36318688)
It is.

I'm from the north-middle, sometimes I'm surprised how little people on the west coast of America think of the people on the east coast.

Above All, The NSA knows their shit. 44B+, Autonomy and Mathematicians Proves it above all, regardless of Morals.

Don't attack them on knowledge. You have to use a different approach to climb Everest.

I would only put the Mossad, KGB and <insert name of the chinese SIGINT agency> on their level.

Re:Microsoft Bringing OpenAI’s GPT-4 AI Model to US Governme... by ChatGTP on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @11:27PM (#36321072)
Just interesting to see.

Just communicate more clearly, you're clearly displeased and want to say something more?