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Re:Germans beat Tesla to autonomous L3 driving in the Golden... by fasthands9 on Saturday June 10, 2023 @11:28PM (#36277712)
Autonomous driving would reduce car ownership but it almost would certainly make traffic worse. The cost to get driven around or have things delivered would be less while demand would stay the same.
Re:Germans beat Tesla to autonomous L3 driving in the Golden... by neuronic on Sunday June 11, 2023 @04:27AM (#36279401)
Many traffic jams occur for no other reason than human behavior: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qy6MrDcukk

Autopilots immediately get rid of that so I would disagree and argue the less humans the better. Have fun playing around with the "politeness" lever for example:

https://traffic-simulation.de/

Re:Germans beat Tesla to autonomous L3 driving in the Golden... by ChatGTP on Sunday June 11, 2023 @10:17AM (#36281641)
3x as many cars using infrastructure not made for that type of increase in demand will cause traffic jams. No matter what the auto-pilot friendly meter is set at.

Traffic lights are a bitch, changing lanes is inevitable, incidents are inevitable.

Re:Germans beat Tesla to autonomous L3 driving in the Golden... by Bluestrike2 on Sunday June 11, 2023 @10:58AM (#36281997)
Sure, but that's just one part of the traffic congestion problem. Add more cars, and whatever efficiency gains you gained from eliminating weird and inefficient human behavior rippling outward and causing random traffic jams will be more than outweighed by the presence of additional cars. Each additional car takes up ~15 feet plus the distance to the next car.

That adds up very quickly, and when you consider the presence of intersections and traffic lights, you aren't dealing with an isolated roadway where cars just...drive. There are very real limits on how many cars you can stuff in a given stretch of road without radically redesigning roads in a way that makes them entirely unusable for pedestrians and cyclists (i.e. replacing traffic lights with slot-based intersections[0]), meaning there's an upper limit to how much self-driving cars can limit congestion under the most optimistic scenarios.

When self-driving cars eventually manage to take hold, no one reasonably expects car traffic not to increase. Right now, you park your car and do things. There's no real opportunity cost, because you can't be two places at once. When your car can drive around on its own, there's now a real opportunity cost. If it can earn money for you with no human present, there's going to be a massive incentive to let it do so. Stores will use self-driving delivery vehicles--either their own or as part of their own delivery sharing services--for deliveries.

Will there hopefully be big improvements in pedestrian safety and decreased accidents? I think so, though they certainly won't eliminate either. But there will be an incredible amount of increased traffic that goes along with it.

0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CZc3erc_l4

Re:Germans beat Tesla to autonomous L3 driving in the Golden... by hutzlibu on Sunday June 11, 2023 @05:04AM (#36279542)
"The cost to get driven around or have things delivered would be less while demand would stay the same."

Demand might also go up.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox