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Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by _kbh_ on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:52AM (#36268584)
> This is why it's funny to see people view the war in Ukraine as a "good guy vs bad guy". The geopolitics are incredibly complicated and there is a lot behind the scene the average person doesn't see.

This war is as clear as WW2 if you don’t see that then I don’t know what to say, it’s plain as day to most people.

Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by mantas on Saturday June 10, 2023 @04:35AM (#36268779)
Talking about WW2, a lot of people still think Soviets were the good guys. Forgetting how nazis and soviets split eastern europe. And later soviets forgot to leave.
Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by KptMarchewa on Saturday June 10, 2023 @08:31AM (#36269928)
And that's clear to everyone nowadays. You really see anyone disputing that?
Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by cbHXBY1D on Saturday June 10, 2023 @10:04AM (#36270542)
I will dispute that. Double genocide theory is a debunked right wing nationalist myth, sorry. [1]

I'm not saying they were saints but they were on the same moral plane of the Allies, wishing to set up buffer states instead of absorbing them fully into the USSR. Political repression was a real issue in the eastern bloc countries but it's no where near as bad as what the US, France, or UK did in the post war period with their colonies, segregation, bombings, or coups.

[1] https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory

Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by mantas on Sunday June 11, 2023 @03:01AM (#36278937)
Soviets did absorb plenty of buffer countries fully into USSR. Along with massacring a lot of people and/or sending them to gulags.

You’re thinking about USSR of 1980s when political repression and some hair cutting was the main issue. But USSR up to mid 1950s was a tad more evil to say the least.

And „debunking double genocide theory“ is fighting a strawman. Let’s talk how USSR started WW2 along with Nazis. Let’s talk Katyn or Rainiai. Let’s talk gulags. Stalin’s purges. Early USSR social reforms and consequences.

Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by FreshStart on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:06AM (#36307541)
Buffer states are a debunked strategic concept from the 18 century, useless in times of nukes.
Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by mantas on Sunday June 11, 2023 @02:53AM (#36278899)
There are plenty of tankies and just naive leftist who wish to believe that USSR was good.
Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by quetzthecoatl on Saturday June 10, 2023 @05:59AM (#36269164)
tell me who were the good guys in WW2? The ones that killed hundreds of millions more than the Nazis?

As bad as the Nazis were, the British were much much worse both in both body count and the cruel tactics they used to kill people. They killed natives all over the world. They killed more Indians (than the 6 million Nazi figures) in WW2 period alone. That's just from one country.

French and the rest of the allies were as bad in methodology and cruelty - though not as bad in body count. Everything that Nazis has done, the allies has done an order of magnitude more to non whites.

The notion that Allies were good guys is just pure white supremacy - that non white causalities don't count.

Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by foldr on Saturday June 10, 2023 @06:23AM (#36269272)
Are you really trying to ‘both sides’ WWII?
Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by Gibbon1 on Saturday June 10, 2023 @06:52AM (#36269412)
He's a Hindu nationalist. So yeah of course he is.
Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by narayanbs on Saturday June 10, 2023 @08:05AM (#36269783)
And who are you to certify?? Look at yourself first.
Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by wwtrv on Saturday June 10, 2023 @12:56PM (#36272258)
Presumably not a deranged Hindu nationalist? Seems good enough...
Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by quetzthecoatl on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:18PM (#36274029)
ahh.. isn't that sweet, a Nazi is happy he isn't a brown Hindu.
Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by wwtrv on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @06:35AM (#36323880)
What? Nazis didn't really have much against Hindus or Arabs (well yet anyway..) in fact tried hard to appeal to them and had quite a bit of success.

Also, I don't quite get you? are you calling me a Nazi? Is that a compliment given your previous far-right rhetoric? I'm sorry you seem to be sending some mixed signals...

Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by quetzthecoatl on Saturday June 10, 2023 @09:09AM (#36270161)
No. I am telling you the allies were much worse. They become the good guys only if you think the atrocities the allies committed on rest of the world doesn't matter because the victims were not whites - which by definition is white supremacy.
Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by _kbh_ on Saturday June 10, 2023 @06:45AM (#36269385)
> tell me who were the good guys in WW2? The ones that killed hundreds of millions more than the Nazis?

The Allies.

The Nazis, the ones committing genocide, they are the bad guys.

> The notion that Allies were good guys is just pure white supremacy - that non white causalities don't count.

The notion that the Allies were the good guys in WW2 is not white supremacy. The fact that the Allied countries did bad things outside WW2 does not mean they were not the good guys during WW2.

Are you seriously trying to tell me the Nazis/Axis powers where the good guys in WW2?.

Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by quetzthecoatl on Saturday June 10, 2023 @09:03AM (#36270116)
>The Allies.

> The Nazis, the ones committing genocide, they are the bad guys.

Except, the allies killed way more people. They just happened to be non white. You are a white supremacist for downplaying it - essentially saying those genocides don't matter as it happened to brown and black people.

>Are you seriously trying to tell me the Nazis/Axis powers where the good guys in WW2?.

Do you have some serious reading comprehension problems? I am saying both are bad. If you just look at the ww2 alone, then Nazis were bad, but if you look at everything that was happening around the world, then the allies were much much worse. As bad as Nazis were, the Allies were much much worse.

Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by RealityVoid on Saturday June 10, 2023 @10:03AM (#36270540)
Can you please clarify who are the more people non-white people the allies killed? I am utterly confused. You are talking about WW2 here, right?
Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by quetzthecoatl on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:18PM (#36274017)
not just WW2, everything that lead to it, everything that the allies were involved in when WW2 was going on etc. I mean, most of the atrocities that the Nazis did were to the German Jews who were not part of the WW2 at all. Does this mean those doesn't count? This kind of logic stumps me.

For the record, i responded your question almost instantly and HN didn't let me post. Got an error saying i am typing too fast.

Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by peterfirefly on Saturday June 10, 2023 @09:10AM (#36270167)
> The Allies.

The Soviets were pretty bad. Allying with the Nazis against the Soviets would have been less wrong.

Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by wwtrv on Saturday June 10, 2023 @12:55PM (#36272241)
The thing is that there a lot of direct victims of Soviet crimes or their relatives who are still alive and remember their atrocities.

The Nazis on the other-hand generally just murdered everyone they hated (losing all of your property + 10 years in the gulag wasn't really an option if you were a Jew in eastern Europe...).

Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by conradev on Saturday June 10, 2023 @06:56AM (#36269429)
> They killed more Indians (than the 6 million Nazi figures) in WW2 period alone

Did they?

Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by peterfirefly on Saturday June 10, 2023 @09:11AM (#36270176)
No. The Soviets were pretty bad, though.
Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by southernplaces7 on Saturday June 10, 2023 @07:11AM (#36269502)
By all means, please cite your sources for the pile of revisionist idiocy you just spewed. The British killed more people than the Nazis during WW2? I'd love to see the source for that in particular at least. Yes, there was the Bengal famine of 1943, and Churchill's callous initial response to it, but this was not a deliberate attempt at starving 3 million bengalis to death. That doesn't excuse it, but there is a difference between a country deliberately targeting for extermination and then exterminating 11 million+ people with gas chambers, death squads and intentional mass starvation campaigns, and another country, pressed to the bone by the burdens of war, badly fucking up on food provision to a part of one of its colonies.

Yes, the allied powers during the war were far from perfect (excluding from this the murderous USSR), but to say they were comparable to the Nazis is grotesquely absurd and shows a breathtaking lack of perspective or deliberate mendacity about motives and outcomes..

Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by quetzthecoatl on Saturday June 10, 2023 @09:07AM (#36270144)
>By all means, please cite your sources for the pile of revisionist idiocy you just spewed.

Ah yes, ignorance and white supremacist history is total bliss. Just because you think you are a hero doesn't mean you are one.

The British caused famines during WW2 alone killed millions in India (estimates go from 1 to 6 million). That's just the famines.

As for the rest of the total figures of british raj casualty - the estimates go from 100 to 200 million. Literally the very first link on google search i am pasting below:

https://mronline.org/2022/12/14/british-empire-killed-165-mi...

Anyone who thinks Allies were the "good guys" are white supremacists who thinks black and brown dead figures and cruelty towards them just don't matter. I want to know how brits who killed hundreds of millions of people worldwide are the good guys.

Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by wwtrv on Saturday June 10, 2023 @12:52PM (#36272209)
Why don't you just go back to Reddit?
Re:The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973 by southernplaces7 on Sunday June 11, 2023 @02:13PM (#36283997)
Just to be clear, one claiming (with an enormous amount evidence supporting the assertion) that the Nazis, history's most notorious white supremacist racists, were terrible and worse than anything that most of the allies represented (again excluding the USSR), makes one a white supremacist? Odd twist of already bad reasoning you've constructed.

Also worth noting that your book's highly debatable assertions cover a span of time stretching across 40 years and ending 20 years before the second world war even began. Compare these tenous arguments to the Nazis's well documented, direct responsibility for over 21 million deaths (including the 11 million killed in specific, targeted extermination campaigns), in just 5 years. Thus even if the book you reference were completely accurate, it would make the Nazis worse during the relevant time span.

None of these arguments have anything to do with me being a white supremacist. And idiotic ideological label now commonly assigned to anyone for absurd reasons because they don't agree with very specific agendas.

Your apparent overall spin on this strongly reminds of a general tendency among some people today to do everything possible to paint the western countries as the most terrible no matter the logical costs or the contortions of whataboutism that this involves. It's an old line of "reasoning" but one that has found fresh material with people making completely ridiculous arguments in defense of policies by countries like Russia and China, specifically because it means shitting on the west.