WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveillance creep

Re:WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveil... by planede on Monday June 05, 2023 @04:12AM (#36193763)

> UBI is also a no-go in terms of "universal". It's just too unfair.

What's unfair is to take away someone's welfare once they finally land a minimal pay job. That diminishes or removes the incentive to actually find a job.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveil... by lelanthran on Monday June 05, 2023 @05:33AM (#36194178)

> What's unfair is to take away someone's welfare once they finally land a minimal pay job.

Did I say otherwise?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveil... by planede on Monday June 05, 2023 @06:09AM (#36194395)

No. But then if UBI is unfair and welfare is unfair, then what's fair? Providing neither?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveil... by lelanthran on Monday June 05, 2023 @06:21AM (#36194479)

> No. But then if UBI is unfair and welfare is unfair, then what's fair? Providing neither?

Me agreeing that taking away

> someone's welfare once they finally land a minimal pay job.

Is not the same as me agreeing that all welfare systems are unfair (You're only considering unemployment welfare payments. There's others).

I don't understand how you can confuse the two.

It's possible to have what almost everyone would consider a fair welfare system.

It's not possible to have what even a significant minority would consider to be a fair UBI system.

Welfare systems have a goal of ensuring that people who need more get more.

UBI has the goal of ensuring that no one gets more than anyone else.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveil... by planede on Monday June 05, 2023 @06:26AM (#36194513)

UBI doesn't prevent a fair welfare system on top of it. It doesn't have to be one or the other. UBI replacing unemployment welfare but not other welfare makes the most sense, IMO.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveil... by lelanthran on Monday June 05, 2023 @06:39AM (#36194582)

> UBI doesn't prevent a fair welfare system on top of it. It doesn't have to be one or the other. UBI replacing unemployment welfare but not other welfare makes the most sense, IMO.

Another welfare system in addition to the existing welfare system is quite undesirable for most proponents of UBI who (like the parent I responded to earlier) present "no other welfare system" as a benefit of UBI.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveil... by planede on Monday June 05, 2023 @08:01AM (#36195094)

I like the idea of UBI, but I agree with you that it can't replace all welfare. But UBI replacing unemployment welfare is not another welfare system in addition to the existing one. It would simplify the existing welfare system by replacing a complex part (unemployment welfare) with a simpler one (UBI).

I think it worth considering UBI in this light. I'm not a proponent of eliminating all other welfare.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:WFH – Watched from Home: Office 365 and workplace surveil... by mantas on Monday June 05, 2023 @09:23AM (#36195846)

However, most UBI theories rely on taking all welfare funds and redistributing them evenly. If you take unemployment welfare only, you're looking into massive tax increases or UBI that won't provide even very basic living.

[ Parent | on HN ]