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Re:Why I Left Rust by rootw0rm on Sunday May 28, 2023 @07:34AM (#36103143)
rust needs it's empaths, too. if we can all figure out how to adult, be decent, work together, and understand the strengths/weaknesses of our very different personalities and skills, hopefully we can all continue building cool stuff together without alienating important voices.
Re:Why I Left Rust by lolinder on Sunday May 28, 2023 @10:04AM (#36104076)
> if we can all figure out how to adult

Part of adulting is responding proportionally to childish behavior in others. Events like this feel like my toddlers fighting—he takes her pencil so she tears his paper so he hits her so she comes crying to mommy.

The adult in the room deescalates, they don't write an emotional blog about how betrayed they feel on behalf of someone else.

Re:Why I Left Rust by marcinzm on Sunday May 28, 2023 @10:17AM (#36104186)
That depends on the power balance. Adults have power over children. The author does not have power over the people involved. Deescalating when you lack power is often little different from not saying anything at all. This is why most non-generational change to existing power structures involves large groups of very angry people. Same reason complaining about your Google Account getting locked on social media is more effective than spending the rest of your life going through their process.

The real question is if the Rust project has an equitable governance structure that minimizes imbalances of power or if it doesn't. If it does then the author should follow that instead of a large angry blog post. If it doesn't then he may as well go with the large angry blog post.

Re:Why I Left Rust by lolinder on Sunday May 28, 2023 @10:31AM (#36104301)
You don't have to have power to deescalate.

We're teaching our children to respond appropriately to conflict—in the situation above, either one of them can deescalate by approaching the conflict reasonably. He could have avoided it altogether by asking nicely for her pencil. She could deescalate by recognizing that he really wanted her pencil and making a trade that they both are happy with. It's hard for them to do because their escalatory actions feel more immediately effective at bringing "justice", but they don't work out in the long run.

The cycle of childishness isn't going to be solved by a post that triggers an internet mob, that's just another childish response in the cycle.

Re:Why I Left Rust by marcinzm on Sunday May 28, 2023 @10:55AM (#36104514)
>We're teaching our children to respond appropriately to conflict—in the situation above, either one of them can deescalate by approaching the conflict reasonably. He could have avoided it altogether by asking nicely for her pencil. She could deescalate by recognizing that he really wanted her pencil and making a trade that they both are happy with. It's hard for them to do because their escalatory actions feel more immediately effective at bringing "justice", but they don't work out in the long run.

Again you're using an example of two children who are equal in power dynamics. Now try having a child deescalate an angry adult. Most people would not find that a reasonable request.

Re:Why I Left Rust by lolinder on Sunday May 28, 2023 @11:27AM (#36104846)
The author isn't a child to the core team's adult, they were one of four members of the core team [0]. They're not an individual contributor who feels incapable of effecting change in the wider org, they were mad at the way one of their peers handled the situation.

[0] Still listed as such here: https://www.rust-lang.org/governance/teams/core

Re:Why I Left Rust by pdimitar on Sunday May 28, 2023 @10:53AM (#36104491)
No power over anyone is required. Reasonable and well-grounded arguments seeking to resolve conflict will do.
Re:Why I Left Rust by marcinzm on Sunday May 28, 2023 @10:54AM (#36104504)
That requires either both sides to be equal in power or both sides to be willing to stick to the process. From the blog the author believes neither is the case.
Re:Why I Left Rust by lolinder on Sunday May 28, 2023 @11:35AM (#36104953)
The author was one of four members of the core team [0], "which is which is ultimately responsible for all decision-making in the project."[1] If there was a power imbalance it's because they were ineffective in their position.

[0] https://www.rust-lang.org/governance/teams/core

[1] https://rust-lang.github.io/rfcs/1068-rust-governance.html

Re:Why I Left Rust by pdimitar on Sunday May 28, 2023 @10:58AM (#36104555)
Yes, agreed. My objection is to their dramatic language and seeming over-reaction. There were much better ways to express disagreement and protest.