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Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by jacurtis on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @10:34AM (#36044907)
This is exactly what I came here to clarify. Most recipes bastardize the word "Caramelize". They tell you to caramelize onions, when in reality you don't actually want caramelized onions (which in many cases would actually ruin the recipe), instead they want softened onions with browned to a light caramel color, which is a completely different thing.

This is like a recipe needing turkey but asking for chicken. Like sure, it will probably work, but it is clearly different and not entirely substitute.

The confusion comes in the color versus the process. I've seen some recipes call for "cook down onions until translucent and caramel in color". This is the most accurate definition of what most recipes want when asking for caramelized onions.

However the true use of the word "Caramelized Onions" are onions that have gone through the cooking process of caramelization. This process requires two things: sugar and time. Just like making candy caramels, you are performing the same process to onions. This makes true caramelized onions actually sweet, with savory notes throughout.

French Onion soup is the most common use of real caramelized onions, which is sweet and savory soup. It could not be made with browned onions, that would ruin it. Coq a vin is another popular recipe that uses caramelized onions, which complement the prominent wine flavors of the dish into a sweet, savory, gamey (usually made with game hens), and earthy delight of a meal. The caramelized onions are what pull that dish together.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by jerf on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @10:46AM (#36045081)
Real French Onion dip, made with onions and not a prepared packet, is another nice dish with real carmelized onions. Alton Brown has a good recipe for the basic version: https://altonbrown.com/recipes/onion-dip-from-scratch/ Note he's honest about how long it takes ("Total Time: 2 hours", step 3 doesn't have a time estimate but it's about right overall).

It isn't haute cuisine, but for something you might serve for a Superbowl party it's at least pointing in that direction. It can stand up to taking a moment to savor and inhale it, moreso than most of the rest of what might be served up there. Pair with the bizarrely tasty Costco Kettle Krinkle Cut potato chips.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by ouid on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @11:19AM (#36045576)
I feel like you shouldn't call it coq au vin unless you're using the male of the species.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by onlypositive on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @12:47PM (#36046970)
This sounds like the same problem as recipes that call for "browning the meat" which I tend to read as "sear the meat" because e.g. mince will brown up within seconds but the searing is what actually gives you the flavour.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by JohnFen on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:15PM (#36048493)
So the lie isn't in the time they say it takes to carmelize onions, but in that they say the recipe calls for carmelized onions at all?

That's even worse. And it begs the question: why are they lying about this?

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by SamBam on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:59PM (#36049118)
They're not lying, they're just using the word in a more imprecise manner.

Recipe authors have probably been using the word "caramelize" to mean "soften and turn brown and sweet" for longer than food nerds have been nitpicking the exact definition of caramelize.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by JohnFen on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:39PM (#36049771)
This irritates me. I'm far from a food nerd. I'm not a cook. I rely on following recipes to turn out decent dishes (I'm good at following recipes).

It would have been nice if someone had clued people like me in to their special definition of the word before now. I'd have saved a whole lot of time and frustration.

But now I'm presented with the other problem: when a recipe calls for carmelized onions, how am I supposed to know if they mean carmelized onions or "cook until translucent"?

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by mrguyorama on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:23PM (#36050363)
If you followed the recipe as written without overthinking it, you would have had translucent onions after ten minutes and a complete and tasty dish.

You aren't supposed to interpret a recipe. You are supposed to follow it. If you have enough skill, practice, or ability to order pizza, THEN is the right time to make decisions about whether this recipe actually needs REAL caramelized onions.

Recipes have been vague and don't make sense out of context for millennia.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by JohnFen on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:31PM (#36050462)
I do follow the recipes without overthinking them, because I don't have the skill required to make judgement calls. But also, I know that any time a recipe gives is highly suspect, so don't judge if something is done based on times in recipes.

So when a recipe says to "carmelize onions", that's what I do. To do anything else is to deviate from what the recipe is plainly telling me.

> Recipes have been vague and don't make sense out of context for millennia.

True. But the fact that this is true means it's essentially impossible to follow a recipe without some degree of interpretation.

I'm just irritated that there was a secret definition to "carmelize onions" that nobody clued me in to.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by underratedbug on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @03:18AM (#36055039)
> I'm just irritated that there was a secret definition to "carmelize onions" that nobody clued me in to.

Many words will have definitions you don’t know — sometimes literally the opposite of their “proper” definitions!

It’s not a secret, it’s just a thing you didn’t know yet. So don’t be too mad, now you know.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by JohnFen on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @11:11AM (#36059239)
Well, I'm not actually angry at all. Just mildly irritated. I wrote far more words here on this topic than it really deserved.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by pfffr on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @04:34AM (#36055468)
Some people add sugar but it is not required to achieve carmelization. Onions contain sufficient sugars to ensure this process.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by dublin on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @11:48AM (#36059764)
I've found you really do need to use sweet Onions like Texas 1015s or Vidalias if you want good, quick(er) carmelized onions. Adding sugar is not the same thing at all as having the sugar grown into the onion itself!

Adding water early on in the cooking process to steam cook and soften the onions really speeds things up, too. (See Lan Lam's YouTube video on cooking carmelized onions. I use a slightly different method, but she got me on the track of adding water early, which really does help...)