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Re:Erlang/OTP 26 Highlights by Jtsummers on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @11:18AM (#35963016)
> tangible advantages usually win the day because in the end people will pick the right tool for the right job

No, they don't. They pick the familiar and the easy-to-hire-for. I've worked on systems (written in C++, Java, others) that would have been perfect for Erlang, but at most I was able to present a prototype. No one is interested in a better solution that they can't hire for or have to retrain their staff for. (The familiar and the easy-to-hire-for may, by some metric, be the right tool for the job, but it isn't necessarily the right tool by technical metrics.)

Re:Erlang/OTP 26 Highlights by devoutsalsa on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @11:24AM (#35963111)
I am pretty strong with Elixir, and I've done a little bit of Erlang. Anyone who understand the basics of Erlang features that get used in Elixir should be able to program in Erlang with a bit of a ramp up period.

Not too long ago I interviewed with a company that only uses Erlang, not Elixir, and they rejected me because I am not an Erlang expert. There wasn't anything I could say that would change their minds. I even volunteered to do a coding challenge of some type & they still wouldn't consider me further.

Sometimes a talent shortage is a state of mind.

Re:Erlang/OTP 26 Highlights by ollien on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @11:56AM (#35963613)
That's what I did! I learned Elixir in my spare time and then started a job that used Erlang. There's some quirks that I had to get over, but it wasn't a huge change over.
Re:Erlang/OTP 26 Highlights by devoutsalsa on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @12:17PM (#35963983)
Shoot me an email if you'd like to connect!
Re:Erlang/OTP 26 Highlights by davidw on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @01:20PM (#35964925)
> Erlang, not Elixir, and they rejected me because I am not an Erlang expert

Wow... was this an actual hiring manager or someone, or like an HR person with a checklist?

I've interviewed for one or two Elixir positions where the opposite thing happened: I talked with someone who had a checklist. I haven't done Elixir professionally even though I have extensive Erlang experience and that was that.

There is a pretty stark difference between "has architected an application with OTP components" and "can write linear code in Erlang or Elixir", but even then you'd probably be able to fit someone in unless you're hiring for that kind of senior/architect position.

Re:Erlang/OTP 26 Highlights by devoutsalsa on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @01:32PM (#35965087)
It was a team decision. I interviewed with the hiring manager and three developers. It sounded like I was the first Elixir person they'd spoken to, and just decided it was outside of their comfort zone.
Re:Erlang/OTP 26 Highlights by hosh on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @01:37PM (#35965168)
When I worked at an Erlang shop, the director’s hiring strategy was to hire generalists willing to learn Erlang. He also hired remote, years before the lockdowns. He built distributed teams that builds distributed systems.
Re:Erlang/OTP 26 Highlights by devoutsalsa on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @01:42PM (#35965221)
Sounds like a nice gig.
Re:Erlang/OTP 26 Highlights by Verdex on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @12:49PM (#35964485)
> > [...] people will pick the right tool for the right job

> No, they don't.

I'm in strong agreement. People pick the option that has a good story associated with it. Having a good story protects you in the event of a failure. And it protects your non-technical boss (or your boss' non-technical boss if your boss is technical).

I assert the following:

Scenario A: I have a literal mathematical proof that erlang is the best choice. I implement the solution, but due to the market changing (or an earthquake or ninjas literally destroy the server room) the overall project fails.

* Me: But, I had math proving everything out. Ultimate Boss: I don't believe in math, you're fired.

* Boss: Well, it failed, but look at this incomprehensible math that I don't understand. Ultimate Boss: You've obviously been hoodwinked, you're fired.

Scenario B: I have a really good story that includes phrases like: "best practices" and "industry standard", and is doing exactly the same thing as everyone else. The project fails because the tool isn't great.

* Me: It failed, but here's a good story. Ultimate Boss: Well, it looks exactly like everything else, so I'll look for a different nail that's standing out from the crowd to blame for this so that the muggles don't get nervous about taking non-chances in the future.

* Boss: Here's this great story that I totally understand and can embellish upon because it operates on storytelling and not category theory. Ultimate Boss: That's a really good story. I'll have to steal it myself to give to the board to handle some unrelated problems of my own. Better luck next time.

Even the scenario of master craftsman using erlang because it's the right tool for the job is more about a story about an uber expert who is off doing wizard stuff than it is about an actual merited set of reasoning.

Re:Erlang/OTP 26 Highlights by Jtsummers on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @01:01PM (#35964651)
> I'm in strong agreement. People pick the option that has a good story associated with it. Having a good story protects you in the event of a failure. And it protects your non-technical boss (or your boss' non-technical boss if your boss is technical).

The "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" defense. Which has since been updated to Oracle, Microsoft, Java, C# (for a large portion of the enterprise world), Python, and Javascript.

Best-in-class that isn't mainstream is a hard sell to employers if they are strongly risk averse (which many people, if not most, are).

Re:Erlang/OTP 26 Highlights by namaria on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @02:26PM (#35965721)
Besides, there's a lot of streetlighting going on. People don't go out of their ways to survey the possible tools. They use what they know.
Re:Erlang/OTP 26 Highlights by ralphc on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @05:45PM (#35968179)
Sounds like they're the prototype for a new company. WhatsApp ran rings around competitors with a small team using Erlang; can you do a better job than the company that rejected it?
Re:Erlang/OTP 26 Highlights by Jtsummers on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @06:52PM (#35968826)
Too low a margin and too few customers to make it worth it for me to try and jump into those niches. Honestly, many of the benefits of using Erlang for those systems would have been similar to any other more service-oriented or decomposition of monoliths. They had complex systems doing too much, but that would have benefited from the really good binary processing portion of Erlang and it's relatively easy horizontal scaling story. But when the number of customer (organizations) can be counted on one hand, and the number of users is less than 1000, and there's already competition you know it's going to be hard to break in. They'd already hit rock bottom pricing on their contracts.