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Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by UncleMeat on Sunday May 14, 2023 @08:41AM (#35937532)
All the presentation of this has been weird.

"Leaked Google memo" is true in a sense, but the doc was written by one person who isn't the primary leading force within relevant orgs at Google. The headline is more accurately described as "what does the opinion of one Googler reveal..."

Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by FooBarBizBazz on Sunday May 14, 2023 @09:31AM (#35937797)
"Leaks" can be press releases. "Oops, you weren't supposed to see that" can make the message seem more credible. Is this Google preemptively fending off accusations of monopoly in an important space?

On the other hand, if Google is perceived as weak, then its share price will be negatively affected. So maybe not.

Maybe it's just what some guy wrote.

But then how did the leak happen? Somebody chose to publicize this particular bit of text. Why?

Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by UncleMeat on Sunday May 14, 2023 @09:44AM (#35937911)
> "Leaks" can be press releases.

It'd be weird not to integrate the comments first if this was being done by PR.

> But then how did the leak happen?

Somebody thought the doc was interesting and shared it with a news outlet.

I've read 100+ docs that read like this. Some sort of position paper designed to spark discussion, much of which happens in the comments alongside the doc. All of them are just the opinion of a person, not the company.

Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by mrtranscendence on Sunday May 14, 2023 @04:15PM (#35941029)
Well, how do you tell the difference between a truly leaked internal document that reflects the opinion of one person, and a "leaked" document that just so happens to put forth a position that's beneficial to Google given its current standing in the LLM space? I think some skepticism is healthy here, as long as we understand that no one knows for sure.
Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by UncleMeat on Sunday May 14, 2023 @05:53PM (#35941672)
In this case, the trick is to look at the document internally and see the comment history.
Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by startupsfail on Sunday May 14, 2023 @10:56AM (#35938484)
Does it matter what is the origin of that opinion? As long as it is a good insight into the situation and accurately reflects the state of affairs, it shouldn’t matter, right?

And as to not being the leader at Google, this hardly matters. Being politically adept and leadership skills don’t necessarily correlate with having better feel and insights into the future technology.

And not being the leader reduces filters, doesn’t have a pull of a contract to protect specific people you lead and your own project, etc.

It’d be better to hear that from a founder, for certain, but a honest opinion of a well seasoned engineer often enough is a better reflection of the reality, than an official statement by a “leading force”.

Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by MrScruff on Sunday May 14, 2023 @11:16AM (#35938612)
It matters because the memo as being portrayed as 'the opinion of Google' by websites looking for clicks.

The opinion is as relevant or not as any opinion expressed on Hacker News, the fact that the person who expressed it works for Google is irrelevant.

Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by startupsfail on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:07PM (#35938985)
Well, there a honest opinion of an unbiased engineer, ideally a researcher who was trained to filter his own biases, from the inside of the organization , speaking honesty is likely the best approximation that you can get for “an opinion of Google”.

It is important that the engineer is an insider, as from outside of Google access to its internal knowledge is limited.

Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by skybrian on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:39PM (#35939225)
Googlers are no more unbiased than someone who gets a job somewhere else. Getting a job at Google might affect your opinions somewhat when you see what people are doing, but there is no special training in being unbiased.

Also, the document we're discussing was not written as a serious research paper. It's a more like one of Steve Yegge's rants, written to be provocative.

Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by mattlondon on Sunday May 14, 2023 @01:13PM (#35939478)
> but there is no special training in being unbiased

Citation needed! ;-)

Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by skybrian on Sunday May 14, 2023 @01:42PM (#35939756)
Well, I didn't get any training like that when I worked there, but it was a long time ago and I don't know what they're teaching Nooglers these days.

I suppose you might be referring to diversity training, but it's not the same thing.

Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by startupsfail on Sunday May 14, 2023 @07:19PM (#35942232)
Understanding and preventing unwanted biases is a part of basic training in science, statistics and experimental design.
Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by oh_sigh on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:20PM (#35939079)
Was any previously unknown info about Google leaked in the memo, that only an insider could know? If not, then why does it even matter that a googler wrote it? If "Anonymous" wrote the doc and uploaded it to pastebin, would you lend it the same credence you are to this doc?
Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by ninth_ant on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:30PM (#35939149)
It does matter, because Google is an important actor in this “industry”.

Even if it doesn’t represent a monolithic “googles thoughts on AI” it is interesting and newsworthy to consider how at least some folks who work at Google think about the recent developments.

If Google goes on a AI-everything spree and forces it awkwardly into all their products a la Google+ — this may indicate how and where AI will be useful to people (or not).

Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by UncleMeat on Sunday May 14, 2023 @02:15PM (#35940017)
Google has nearly 200,000 employees. Almost every possible opinion is held by somebody within the company.

Imagine this was written by Blake Lemoine, who believed that one of the earlier models was sentient. Would it be reasonable to present this as a company-wide belief?

Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by startupsfail on Sunday May 14, 2023 @07:26PM (#35942282)
No, but a company-wide belief doesn’t matter. Some 200,000 lemmings can be mistaken, along with the chief lemming. Or all of them can be right. The discussion here is regarding a particular opinion of a particular employee.

And what matters is how informed and honest that particular employee is. And if ultimately that employee is right or wrong. If there is some objective truth in his or her statement.

(And for a reference, I don’t think that these 200,000 Googlers or Lemoine were right or wrong, it feels like Lemoine was asking/answering a wrong question, which needs to be asked differently to have a well defined answer).

Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by UncleMeat on Sunday May 14, 2023 @08:34PM (#35942687)
I do not believe a single headline that has attributed the doc to a single googler rather than to Google in general.
Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by fauigerzigerk on Sunday May 14, 2023 @04:24PM (#35941095)
>Does it matter what is the origin of that opinion? As long as it is a good insight into the situation and accurately reflects the state of affairs, it shouldn’t matter, right?

It does matter a great deal whether a particular opinion is held by someone with the power to act on it or by someone who can only try to influence those who can act on it.

Re:What does a leaked Google memo reveal about the future of... by dehrmann on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:44PM (#35939267)
At the same time, I'm not sure I'd give any more weight to something written by "leading forces within relevant orgs" when these are the same people who missed ChatGPT and are playing catch-up.