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Re:Fuck Being Productive by jillesvangurp on Thursday May 11, 2023 @02:22PM (#35906151)
Work at work, enjoy life outside of work. Have real weekends and evenings and use them to reset your brain. Allowing your brain to reset is an essential part of being productive. Your short term memory gets in the way of solving problems sometimes. And your brain actually does useful things while you sleep. I've lost count of how solutions to seemingly tricky issues just pop in my head after a good night sleep or after a long weekend.

And you can learn on the job. No need to do that outside work hours. And trying to learn stuff when you are tired after a long day is hard. It makes you more tired, you learn slower, it's frustrating, and you are setting yourself up for being less productive the next day because of it.

Make time for learning stuff, demand time for it even and put it in your calendar or just sneak it in. Get your boss to support you.

Try working smarter, not harder. If it feels like monkey work automate it. It's more fun and you get more productive by doing less. Frees up some time to do more interesting things.

If your work is not interesting to you, you are in the wrong job anyway. But assuming it is, you should make the most of it in terms of making it rewarding (and not just in the money sense).

Re:Fuck Being Productive by wahnfrieden on Thursday May 11, 2023 @02:26PM (#35906206)
Sounds like massive cope. If we don’t like work perhaps we can change it without waiting on favors to be handed down to us. Your boss won’t help unless market conditions force their hand.

The work conditions you mentioned (free weekday nights and the weekend) were fought for and are very new, why stop there?

Re:Fuck Being Productive by AndrewKemendo on Thursday May 11, 2023 @02:37PM (#35906364)
100% this

The idea that work is “over there” and life is “over here” is not only unique historically, it’s also the reason workers have no power. By failing to demand that companies and organizations adjust to us and telling them “this is how we are going to live and companies need to fit into that” then we tacitly let them collude to keep labor power down.

If you are alienated from your work, and accept and lean into that alienation, then you have no personal drive to make work serve you and your community rather than you serving it.

It’s a race to the bottom of alienation and the paved path of capitalism is basically scraping the bottom at this point.

Re:Fuck Being Productive by jillesvangurp on Thursday May 11, 2023 @03:17PM (#35907030)
If you are a good, productive engineer, your boss will bend over backwards to not lose you. Or they should be. Your negotiation power is a lot stronger than you think. Plenty of jobs out there and it never hurts to remind them that they are replacable.

I've enjoyed the work conditions I mention throughout my career. I'm 48 now. But of course I work in a part of the world where this stuff was sorted out decades ago. 40 hour work weeks, 26 days of vacation per year, etc. Here in Germany, many companies even have policies that state people should not be sending emails or replying to those in their spare time. Such a simple thing. Easy to implement too. Just don't reply outside of work hours.

Of course, I'm a startup CTO so I have none of that because I work for myself. But I still take my weekends and evenings because I'm simply less productive and creative when I'm tired and stressed out which is a different way of saying I'm useless when I'm like that. I need my brain to work properly to be effective. So I use my time wisely. And working on weekends or evenings simply isn't a good use of my time. So, I rarely do that.

Being a wage slave is a choice. If you don't like your life, change it. Lots of people are not capable of reflecting on what they do or why they do it and afraid to change or challenge things. They just do the same thing day after day because that just is what they do; no matter how much it sucks. Change starts with you wanting things to change and then acting to make that happen.

Re:Fuck Being Productive by deprecative on Thursday May 11, 2023 @05:47PM (#35908833)
> Being a wage slave is a choice. If you don't like your life, change it.

It's incredibly unfortunate that instead of using a shred of empathy to see that your situation isn't the situation of nearly everyone else in the industry, or alive for that matter. "If you don't like your life, change it" screams "I have no idea what I am talking about" because you're failing to see that situations elsewhere are different.

Take a software job in the US. You're working a minimum of 45 hours per week for 40 hours pay. If you have to work overtime you do so for free. If you get sick you have a mandated PTO allowance of 0. You might get two weeks. Your salary will be somewhere in the ballpark of $70k. Is that good? Yes. Is it enough? No. Not even close. If you change employer or region is any of that going to change? No. It won't.

So, what's left? Easy: be born into wealth and retire on it. Just change your life, bro.

Re:Fuck Being Productive by wahnfrieden on Thursday May 11, 2023 @06:27PM (#35909189)
Yes, all I suggested was that workers coordinate to demand conditions. Their reply was that individuals should talk to their bosses alone, or find a new boss. It's always mystified me why people will shoot down the idea of workers organizing, and meanwhile their managers, execs, investors, board and their industry connections routinely meet and coordinate over how to keep wages at a desired market position, in other words how to keep wages as suppressed as possible.

They're organized as hell over this, why should workers stay atomized? There's a reason employers don't want workers talking about wages with anyone except their boss.

Re:Fuck Being Productive by jillesvangurp on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:44AM (#35912809)
Sounds pretty miserable. Come to Europe and enjoy life. Plenty of work here in Germany or elsewhere in Europe and pretty easy to get a visa if you have skills. Berlin is absolutely crawling with smart people from the US living a great life here.
Re:Fuck Being Productive by lurking_swe on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:58AM (#35914080)
you’re a SWE working 45 hours a week? You can do better, even in the US. I suggest focusing on company culture when interviewing if you care about this kind of stuff.

I’ve worked at 3 companies in my career so far, and worked about 40 hours a week at each of them. i was not born into wealth…neither were (most) of my coworkers.

I won’t even ask about the $70k salary. I made that much at my first gig after college. Sounds like your employer is taking advantage of you.

Re:Fuck Being Productive by wahnfrieden on Friday May 12, 2023 @06:57AM (#35914481)
>The national average salary for a Software Developer is $88,383 in United States.

Yes many of us here are capable of making multiples more than that and so have I, but we're not talking career advice here, we're talking about material conditions industry wide

Re:Fuck Being Productive by wahnfrieden on Friday May 12, 2023 @11:22AM (#35917510)
Your logic is the same as the scab: others are foolish because I can personally enrich myself by doing something without care for how it ends up hurting myself in the long run
Re:Fuck Being Productive by lurking_swe on Friday May 12, 2023 @01:52PM (#35919596)
look i get it, you’d prefer if people unionized so that the less fortunate benefit. a noble goal. But the parent is very confused if they think working conditions are amazing in europe. I agree PTO is fantastic for legal reasons. That aside…please realize that average pay in an expensive city like berlin is right around the $70k salary that they make fun of.

see for yourself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27916453

that’s for a SENIOR btw. Housing in Berlin is not cheap.

Re:Fuck Being Productive by wahnfrieden on Friday May 12, 2023 @02:27PM (#35920180)
I'm not a fan of unions, you have a narrow sense of politics
Re:Fuck Being Productive by deprecative on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:26PM (#35921896)
You really can't do much better as a SWE in the US. Even when you're not sitting at your computer typing in all that super slick code you're still working. Company culture is the same within the US from place to place unless you want some ultra fundamentalist loon for a boss?

The base salary for Entry Level Developer ranges from $67,415 to $84,398 with the average base salary of $75,125.

> Sounds like your employer is taking advantage of you.

That's what employers do. That's all they do. That's all they're designed to do. But that's irrelevant because I am personally speaking to industry trends not a singular employer.

I guess cope harder? You've been working 40 hours. I assume you had a lunch period. That's 45. You work what we all do. Congrats.

Re:Fuck Being Productive by lurking_swe on Thursday May 18, 2023 @02:17AM (#35984621)
No, 40 hours includes lunch breaks. :) My bosses have all been non-jerks too, which is important. I’m probably lucky…but part of me just laughs during these types of conversations. we (software engineers) are more privileged than 90% of workers in america. Feels a bit like a harvard student complaining how hard their life is. It’s just a pointless discussion IMO.

Anyway ya’ll bitter as hell lol. Wish you all a pleasant day.

Re:Fuck Being Productive by wahnfrieden on Saturday May 20, 2023 @03:59PM (#36015046)
we're all in this together as workers, even if some of us are lucky to have higher pay than others. you're missing the point. yes tech workers have cushy lives.
Re:Fuck Being Productive by hiepph on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:57AM (#35913671)
I learned a tip to not feel "guilty" for resting in the evening or at weekends: resting is also a part of the work. It allows the body to prepare energy for the next working session, much like exercising.