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Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by theshrike79 on Monday May 08, 2023 @12:50AM (#35858221)
> in my org tickets overflow from one sprint to the next all the time, tickets get added mid-sprint

That's not Scrum then. You don't add stuff mid-sprint, that's the whole point. Unless the world is literally on fire, you don't touch the sprint content.

What's your scrum master doing when you get stuff added? It's their job to prevent it.

And if work overflows, you need to spend time grooming the tasks to manageable chunks and adjust the team velocity. You can always pick up more tasks if you run out of stuff to do.

Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by ResearchCode on Monday May 08, 2023 @05:00AM (#35859550)
Why do you need a "scrum master" to prevent that? Linux kernel seems to be doing just fine without them.

The real solution is of course not to have any "sprints" at all. A manageable chunk of work is a 3 to 6 month project.

Non-tech enterprise treat software engineers as children and create bad software. FAANG and adjacent companies treat software engineers more as professionals and create better software.

Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by theshrike79 on Monday May 08, 2023 @05:42AM (#35859775)
Linux kernel is more like Kanban than an Agile project, you can't really compare it to a project with an actual client who pays money to receive features in a timeframe. Stuff gets done when it's done and the BFDLs decide when the feature gets into the actual kernel.

Waterfall-style projects had 3 to 6 month timeframes of delivery and we all know how that goes. The result is always either out of date due to changing requirements or not what the customer wanted because there is no way to change course after the project specification was locked.

...or you spend so much time doing an exact specification that the Agile team has already delivered 3 incremental versions.

Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by ResearchCode on Monday May 08, 2023 @06:09AM (#35859914)
I don't see what use a "scrum master" is. That sounds like a small task for the software engineer or their real manager. There is nothing showing that heavy agile actually leads to features being developed earlier. In my experience it's the opposite as you build up heavy tech debt by micro-managing and optimizing for a 2 week return instead of the long term.

Waterfall were 1 to 2 year projects with heavy up-front administration. 3 to 6 months is well-balanced and that's what the "elite" companies and research groups tend to use. Two weeks is the current fad at non-tech enterprise.

Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by theshrike79 on Monday May 08, 2023 @07:17AM (#35860337)
The task of the Scrum Master is to make themselves redundant. They just make sure the team follows the structure they agreed on + runs interference for external issues.

After the team is mature enough, one of them can take the SM duties in addition to other tasks because the actual process runs without extra management.

Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by ResearchCode on Monday May 08, 2023 @12:30PM (#35863592)
Sounds like they were redundant from the very beginning. Those sound like small tasks for the engineers or the actual manager.
Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by midoridensha on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @04:32AM (#35871589)
In my experience on a scrum team, the scrummaster was basically a coach. They helped deal with external issues as the other responder said, so the manager (team leader) didn't waste his time with that and could use his time dealing with team members and doing engineering work too. In my case, the scrummaster had this role for a bunch of parallel teams, not just one, so it was a full-time job for him. The org structure seemed to work very well for the type of work we were doing.
Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by theshrike79 on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @06:43AM (#35872347)
Yea, pretty often scrum masters are hired coaches that are let go when the team knows how to self-manage - or like you said - they coach multiple teams at the same time.
Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by ResearchCode on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @10:37AM (#35874971)
What qualifications does a "scrum master" have that a software engineer does not have when it comes to creating a self-managing team? The "scrum" pamphlet can be read on a lunch break and I don't think the certs even have exams.
Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by midoridensha on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @09:20PM (#35882492)
In my experience, there's a couple: 1. The scrum master actually has a personality that facilitates talking to people both inside and outside the team, getting people to participate in meetings, etc. The software engineers do not. 2. The scrum master has time to spend on dealing with external stakeholders, coordinating between teams, etc. The team members have better things to do with their time, like write software.
Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by ResearchCode on Thursday May 11, 2023 @03:32AM (#35898976)
So it's contempt for engineers again. They need a layman to communicate for them. I don't think so, engineers communicate just fine at FAANG. I don't see why they need an agile helper in non-tech enterprise. Lawyers don't need agile, and doctors don't. There is no reason why engineers would.

The team members are too busy with agile meetings to write software. That's a more common problem.

Maybe giving the tech lead a technical secretary is a better idea if you have a lot of administration to be done.

Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by midoridensha on Thursday May 11, 2023 @10:54PM (#35911350)
Obviously you have some kind of axe to grind and haven't worked in a place that uses the scrum process decently. We never spent much time in agile meetings.
Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by ResearchCode on Saturday May 20, 2023 @03:15PM (#36014723)
No, that is not obvious, more than you making money from corporate agile, which few software engineers seem to actually like. Too many meetings is one of the most common criticisms.
Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by ResearchCode on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @10:11AM (#35874580)
If the "scrum master" stopped booking meetings that should have been an e-mail, the engineers would deal with those issues with time to spare. What issues really? I don't even see how a technically weak "scrum master" could deal with any real issue in a software product.
Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by IshKebab on Monday May 08, 2023 @07:29AM (#35860405)
See that's the main problem with strict scrum. Why can't you add things to the sprint mid sprint? Sometimes things come up that you didn't think of.

There's really no point being that strict. I think two week meetings/sprints are good for keeping focus and as an opportunity to agree short term priorities. But the point is to get work done, not to precisely obey scrum rules.

Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by theshrike79 on Monday May 08, 2023 @08:19AM (#35860747)
Depends on what the "you" is here.

If the "you" is the team, go ahead. Add anything you want, as long as you deliver what you promised in the beginning of the sprint.

If the "you" is an external person asking for a "quick job", then the default answer is "talk to the scrum master" whose default answer will be "No.". Then they can start discussing if it is so urgent and important that it can't wait 1-10 business days for the next sprint and/or small enough not to disrupt other work.

The rules are there to protect the team. If the team is willing to take ad-hoc work, nothing in the agile rules says they can't do so. The point is that nobody outside of the team can force them to take on extra work mid-sprint and disrupt their planned work.

Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by IshKebab on Monday May 08, 2023 @08:51AM (#35861006)
> If the "you" is an external person asking for a "quick job", then the default answer is "talk to the scrum master" whose default answer will be "No.

I hate working with people like this. So unhelpful.

Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by theshrike79 on Monday May 08, 2023 @05:10PM (#35867112)
I hate being interrupted by people too, that's why I like the Scrum style of working when there is an external client (or an unruly internal one).
Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by treis on Monday May 08, 2023 @08:44AM (#35860952)
That's not a rule in Scrum that I'm aware of. It's an aspiration for sure since an injection implies some sort of emergency or unanticipated work. Ideally you avoid those sort of things. But if they happen it's not an issue to inject something. Constantly doing so usually means something has broken down in planning and/or quality is so bad the team is going from fire to fire.
Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by TobyTheDog123 on Monday May 08, 2023 @04:59PM (#35866994)
So if we finish all of our tickets early (which is often the case because measuring complexity is impossible to do up front), we're just supposed to sit around until the sprint ends?

A scrum master? Man, I thought my team was bloated with process but the fact that role exists elsewhere means I should probably be more grateful.