Re:At Musk’s brain-chip startup, animal-testing panel is rif...
by anonymouskimmer on Friday May 05, 2023 @09:57PM
(#35837238)
> Unfortunately not only do I not know how to tell if any given animal can genuinely experience suffering (rather than merely act in a way that tiggers my empathy/sympathy), I don't think anyone else can either.
Biochemical signalling, and pathways, along with neural responses. It helps that so much of animal genetics is similar. Here was a study in fruit flies: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190712120244.h...
Re:At Musk’s brain-chip startup, animal-testing panel is rif...
by ben_w on Saturday May 06, 2023 @04:05AM
(#35839231)
That tells us about a signalling mechanism, not about an inner subjective experience.
Those insects in that study might be conscious, or they might not be — but as I read it, part of the hard problem of consciousness is that we still don't yet understand the question.
Re:At Musk’s brain-chip startup, animal-testing panel is rif...
by anonymouskimmer on Saturday May 06, 2023 @12:19PM
(#35842774)
This is also a criticism with respect to other humans. Especially when we start talking about humans in comas, vegetative states, or locked-in syndrome. Or heck, even people with congenital insensitivity to pain.
At the very least, not everyone values their own suffering the same. Masochists can see it as something to be cultivated, even.
Same standards? Yes, I agree. At least when the species is the same (lab pig vs bacon pig). There's no guarantee that lab rats and cattle share the same answer to the question "can they suffer?"
"meet in the middle"? Strongly disagree. While we should determine the reality of the situation, the only thing I can be sure of is that the middle is the worst of both — either a specific animal is able to experience suffering, or they are not; if they are then testing on them or eating them should be repugnant, and if they are not then it should be done without care.
Unfortunately not only do I not know how to tell if any given animal can genuinely experience suffering (rather than merely act in a way that tiggers my empathy/sympathy), I don't think anyone else can either. (Same basic problem as with "is this AI sentient?")