EU urged to protect grassroots AI research or risk losing out to US

Re:EU urged to protect grassroots AI research or risk losing... by bborud on Thursday May 04, 2023 @02:22PM (#35819902)

I'm not convinced it is really about something as simple as salaries. If it was people would be flocking to SV from here. They are not. The vast majority of those who could get jobs in SV stay here. And the vast majority of those who do take jobs in SV, eventually come back.

I have had that choice to move to SV several times. And no doubt make a pile of money. But I don't want to live in the US. I want to live here. And if you follow indices that measure quality of life, security, democracy, freedom etc. it is easy to see why. Norway is usually at the top of those indices -- the US very much isn't.

I think this is also the reason we have an anemic tech sector: if you have a lot to lose, you become risk averse. Why start a company and gamble money when you can find a mediocre, well paid job where you work 7.5 hours per day, 5 days per week, go home at the end of the day and focus on what you want to do?

I think part of our problem is a lack of fear of not making it. We don't have to make it to have a good life. And we know it.

(It is also a factor that the cost of living in SV is a lot higher than here. I did the numbers many years ago, and I'd have to make more than double what I make here to have the same amount of disposable income in SV)

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Re:EU urged to protect grassroots AI research or risk losing... by marvinkennis on Thursday May 04, 2023 @02:43PM (#35820201)

For what it's worth, there's a huge barrier to get to SV in the form of US immigration policies. Your anecdote is no doubt valid, but if those immigration policies were loosened up, I'd bet we'd see an even larger migration to SV.

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Re:EU urged to protect grassroots AI research or risk losing... by bborud on Thursday May 04, 2023 @04:22PM (#35821545)

But that wasn't really the question. The question was if people who can will move.

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Re:EU urged to protect grassroots AI research or risk losing... by ActorNightly on Thursday May 04, 2023 @04:16PM (#35821483)

> But I don't want to live in the US. I want to live here. And if you follow indices that measure quality of life, security, democracy, freedom etc. it is easy to see why

If you go by the internet metrics that are vastly skewed to be anti capitalist, then sure.

In reality, US is very much "make your own life". We have conservative areas, liberal areas, and everything in between. You can live in a busy city, or you can live very remotely.

Objectively speaking, if you take your salary+benefits-taxes in US versus salary+benefits-taxes in EU, the only way EU wins is if you are still in early stages of career and start having kids.

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Re:EU urged to protect grassroots AI research or risk losing... by pipes on Thursday May 04, 2023 @04:39PM (#35821746)

I'm in the UK and that's my impression of the USA. How ever most people I talk to here seem to think that the USA is some gun ridden bible bashing hell hole. I remember trying to persuade some one that "no really the USA has separation of church and state", they basically didn't believe me and seemed to think the UK had a more secular set up (we have church of England and king is head of that church)

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Re:EU urged to protect grassroots AI research or risk losing... by laurencerowe on Friday May 05, 2023 @03:52AM (#35826461)

I'm a Brit and have lived in the US for 10 years now. While the US has the more secular constitution, culturally and politically religion is far more influential in the US than the UK. Since the late 1970s the Republican Party began courting white evangelicals and it is now heavily associated with their beliefs. Republican Supreme Court Justices have opened the way for Republican controlled states to ban abortion and I expect we will see pregnant women die in these states as they are unable to access appropriate healthcare much as they did in Ireland until relatively recently.

The secular nature of the US constitution was designed to protect religious freedom while in the UK religion was subjugated to the interests of the state - the Church of England was setup so that the King could get a divorce after all!

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Re:EU urged to protect grassroots AI research or risk losing... by bborud on Thursday May 04, 2023 @04:20PM (#35821530)

So Norway is anti-capitalist? Uh. Right.

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Re:EU urged to protect grassroots AI research or risk losing... by ActorNightly on Thursday May 04, 2023 @04:40PM (#35821758)

I don't understand how you infer that from what I said.

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Re:EU urged to protect grassroots AI research or risk losing... by bborud on Thursday May 04, 2023 @05:39PM (#35822450)

I can see how you might think that. It is easy to think that adequate wealth is a goal in itself. Especially if you either do not have adequate wealth or you become caught up in securing that level of wealth even after you are there. Wealth gives you the things you really care about. Such as freedom and security which ultimately enables happiness and contentment. (Enables, not provides).

It is easier to see from the flip side: if you lack freedom and security, what good is wealth? You're just a prisoner with a somewhat nicer cage. If you see wealth as a goal in itself, then it just means you probably haven't actually got a plan for why you are chasing wealth.

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Re:EU urged to protect grassroots AI research or risk losing... by ActorNightly on Monday May 08, 2023 @04:01PM (#35866325)

Pretty sure US is the most "free" country by standard metrics. You can do a lot of stuff in US that you cannot do in other countries.

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Re:EU urged to protect grassroots AI research or risk losing... by bborud on Monday May 22, 2023 @03:49PM (#36035839)

It doesn't matter what you are "pretty sure" about. There are organizations that try to quantify these things and produce concrete metrics, and it might surprise you to learn that they don't necessarily agree with your world view.

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Re:EU urged to protect grassroots AI research or risk losing... by rgavuliak on Friday May 05, 2023 @03:18AM (#35826264)

I have spent a good deal of time in the US during my previous job. To some extent I agree that the US has a lot of opportunity (not just work, but food, culture etc.) and it was great being there. At the same time I can walk the streets of a bigger city in the EU without running into a homeless village and/or a homeless person harassing passer-bys if I make the wrong turn. And more importantly I can walk. I can take a tram to the city center and have a beer, not site in an Uber or my car for 1 hour in case I live in a nice gated community in the suburbs.

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