News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @02:09PM (#35805668)
Arguably, Microsoft is why a browser's user-agent is so useless for determining supported features.

https://webaim.org/blog/user-agent-string-history/

The context is explained prior, but the part I'm pointing to is:

> And Microsoft grew impatient, and did not wish to wait for webmasters to learn of IE and begin to send it frames, and so Internet Explorer declared that it was “Mozilla compatible” and began to impersonate Netscape, and called itself Mozilla/1.22 (compatible; MSIE 2.0; Windows 95), and Internet Explorer received frames, and all of Microsoft was happy, but webmasters were confused.

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by recursive on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @02:17PM (#35805763)
Also arguably, the ubiquity of user agent sniffing is why. You get what you measure. You want your UA to contain "Mozilla". By god, you'll get it one way or another.
Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @02:31PM (#35805947)
Yeah, I was a little hesitant to suggest that this was caused by Microsoft given that. I actually agree that this problem is caused by user agent sniffing. I could see someone arguing the other way, though.

Ultimately, I think it's still on-topic given that, at any point, any of these browser vendors (admittedly, not limited to Microsoft) could have started to work with webmasters for a standard of "feature claims" instead of "user agent claims". So a user agent can say, "I support frames," and a server can serve frames. Instead, Microsoft decided they'd just lie about it.

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by wolpoli on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @02:55PM (#35806253)
Switching to a system of "user agent claims" have been up to any one of the browsers, when they had a majority of marketshare, to push through. Mosaic/Netscape/IE all had a chance in the Web 1.0 world, unfortunately, none of them did.
Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @03:20PM (#35806529)
I agree with that too, and admitted to such in my previous comment. Still, being the first practitioner of this comes with a certain responsibility for its proliferation. It's not a sole responsibility to your point, but it is primary in a way. It's a lot easier for others to decide to copy what someone else did than to decide to be the first to do it.

To the same point, Google is arguably the reason it persists today given the popularity of Chrome. Just as Microsoft is arguably the reason it started. (I suppose I could have been more careful in the phrasing of my initial comment since "is so useless" could imply both but I don't think it's particularly egregious.)

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by wolpoli on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @08:04PM (#35809551)
One thing I have always wondered about the story - were servers in the mid-1990s really sniffing user agents to decide what pages to send through? I remember most sites were static .html files back then.
Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by recursive on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @08:09PM (#35809596)
Not sure if it's the server, or the javascript, but it was definitely a thing in the 90s.
Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by JohnFen on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @06:03PM (#35808395)
I think user agent strings were a terrible idea from the get-go, so I'm OK with Microsoft (and everyone else) fudging them this way. I think it'd be even better if everyone used the exact same UA string.
Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by tatersolid on Thursday May 04, 2023 @12:35AM (#35811251)
> I think it'd be even better if everyone used the exact same UA string.

Then why send a UA string at all? Save the bytes on the wire.

Re:MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge a... by JohnFen on Thursday May 04, 2023 @11:30AM (#35816974)
I agree -- I don't think the UA string should exist. But it does, so the next best thing is having everyone send the same string.