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Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by bckygldstn on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @08:35PM (#35796218)
What legal basis do you have for enforcing a $1mil civil penalty on stalkers?

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems out of proportion to any damages sustained to Tile and likely unenforceable (not to mention uncollectable)?

(FWIW: I think ID verification is a good non-technical deterrent to what is largely a non-techincal problem!)

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by crhulls on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @09:23PM (#35796539)
It’s a terms of service you opt in to. Unclear how well it holds up in court but I dare anyone to try! We will go all out making an example out of people who abuse the system. So far we have not had a single report of misuse of the anti-theft feature.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by nradov on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @10:03PM (#35796836)
I am not a stalker, but that agreement is almost certainly unenforceable in civil court. It violates the basic principles of consideration and equity. There is extensive case law on those areas, which you might want to look into before wasting people's time making empty threats and bullshiting about subjects you clearly don't understand.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by crhulls on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @10:35PM (#35797064)
We are a public company with an audit and risk committee, multiple in-house lawyers, and external counsel. This was heavily discussed.

Perhaps a court would limit the fine, but liquidated damages are a commonly used concept, and I don't think most people will tempt fate.

Aggressive stalkers will buy dedicated GPS devices - this is a real roadblock.

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by nradov on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @11:41PM (#35797641)
I don't believe you. I think you're either lying, or misunderstood what your external counsel told you. If you want us to take your claim seriously then post copies of their opinion letters.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by neom on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @12:35AM (#35798048)
"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by sgtnoodle on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @11:57PM (#35797770)
> I don't think most people will tempt fate.

In so far as I would hope most people would avoid doing business with companies that mention $1 million dollar civil lawsuits in their terms of service.

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by 15155 on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @05:46AM (#35800152)
> I don't think most people will tempt fate.

You're right: they'll just use your far more well-established competitor without such ridiculous language.

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by iamleppert on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @09:53AM (#35802416)
Real stalkers aren't going to care about a ToS -- they are already intent on violating criminal law. This will likely just push people to use fake/stolen ID and payment information, making it even harder to track and unravel. Your exposure to various fraud comorbidity as a result of this policy is ever likely.

Additionally, most stalkers know their victims, so you are entering into a vast grey area that civil courts do not have prior established case law (vis-a-vis a third party as you are) to adjudicate and for which the burden of proof is on your lawyers who won't have the same powers to subpoena information as is available in criminal matters. It's also unlikely stalkers would have significant assets, making civil enforcement of this policy potentially very costly and time consuming for your company. Making a mistake with an enforcement action or loosing a case would be incredibly poor optics for your company.

Sending a letter to your legal staff for a cursory review and getting their rubber stamp won't change the potential legal outcome for your company or shield you from liability, when (not if) the time comes, and likely opens you to substantial liability should the product be used in the service of a crime.

That said, if I really want to stalk someone your app already provides everything that is needed, and in fact it is currently being used by sex traffickers and domestic violence abusers to track, stalk and exploit their victims en mass [1].

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2023/04/06/sex-t...

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by crhulls on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @01:13PM (#35804961)
The irony of that article is that the traffickers were sent to jail because of our app. We are unapologetic about working with law enforcement.