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Re:Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death ... by virgildotcodes on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @08:42AM (#35786529)
I’ve done large amounts of psychedelics and if anything it’s left me feeling more grounded in a materialist worldview.

Not that that’s a negative thing at all. The universe is perfect without any need for magic to arbitrarily insert its fingers into the clockwork.

Re:Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death ... by mensetmanusman on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @02:47PM (#35792333)
Do you believe the objects of your thoughts are material?
Re:Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death ... by virgildotcodes on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @03:30PM (#35792877)
Yeah it seems to me the entire process of cognition is based on fully material processes.
Re:Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death ... by mensetmanusman on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @05:46PM (#35794667)
Not the process, the plane of existence where the object is. Many who have left Plato’s cave doubt that those objects are made of material.
Re:Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death ... by virgildotcodes on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @05:59PM (#35794800)
If we take Plato’s cave to be the mind, and the projections upon the wall to be reality’s impressions upon our mind transformed into stimuli, then I don’t believe anyone could have ever left that cave anymore than anyone could have ever stepped their consciousness outside of their own brain to verify how well reality correlates to their mind’s interpretation of it.

Regardless, all this this conjecture is invariably happening within the boundaries of our minds, which seems to be composed entirely of physical phenomena.

Re:Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death ... by rbanffy on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @05:57PM (#35794784)
Without a definition of what’s material in this context, this discussion makes very little sense.

We can’t see objective reality since all we see and sense have to go through our brains. What we can do is to interpret what we see and try to arrive at something that represents a consensus among our different perceptions.

Re:Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death ... by mensetmanusman on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @08:54PM (#35796356)
Are you saying the mind is another form of interpretation? Where is that plane of interpretation happening?
Re:Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death ... by rbanffy on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @05:50AM (#35800174)
We are only aware of the mind's internal representation of objective reality.
Re:Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death ... by mensetmanusman on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @11:43AM (#35803780)
Who is aware? The atoms in the brain are aware?
Re:Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death ... by rbanffy on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @05:46PM (#35808222)
Hard to draw a line without a good definition of awareness. An entire adult brain loaded with a life of experiences? Certainly yes. A 10-week fetus? Almost certainly no.
Re:Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death ... by mensetmanusman on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @10:00PM (#35810389)
It is “the hard problem” :)
Re:Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death ... by yarg on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @03:36PM (#35792980)
> The universe is perfect

The universe is a cosmic horror, life emerges and with it untold suffering.

The very notion of perfection is also emergent (not to mention self relative), outside of the conceptual framework of the observer's mind perfection does not even exist.

The universe is beautiful, life emerges and with it all understanding, love and joy.

Two sides of the same emergent coin, the nature of all experience was forged by what it took for our ancestors to survive to the next generation.

Re:Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death ... by virgildotcodes on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @06:26PM (#35795062)
Sigh, now you've got me sitting here having an existential crisis over my long held belief in the perfection of the universe.

The belief was primarily based on a deterministic view of it, with the notion that everything comes from something, and becomes something else.

Every moment has two perfectly balanced sides, with perfect knowledge of the laws of the universe giving you a perfect understanding of all the transformations that took place from one moment into the next.

There is of course the debate over whether it is not deterministic, if the Everettian view is false then possibly not, but more to the heart of the matter, this idea that because a greater and greater understanding of the laws of the universe unravels all its dynamics, all its reasons for being and acting the way that it is. This idea that the fact that there is a reason for everything, an order to everything, is what makes it perfect.

The thing is I have a hunch that an inquiry all the way to the bottom will eventually leave us with a bunch of arbitrary laws and constants, which have no further explanation for their being just so, other than the anthropic principle.

It seems hard to me to ascribe such a scenario the quality of generic "perfection" even solely from the perspective of my biased human mind.

I agree with you that perfection is a notion alien to the objective reality, which simply is, without any judgements or qualifications.

So to go back to my original comment, I think it would be more accurate to simply say that I've seen no reason to believe that anything we experience cannot be explained by physical processes.

Maybe consciousness itself will be the most relevant concept left inexplicable? Not the process of sustaining it, but the actual subjective experience of it. Why not have a universe of automatons processing their worlds and inner minds in all the same ways, but without anyone home? Why are we home, and how are we assigned to our homes?

I don't know that these questions are enough to make me believe in the "supermaterial" or supernatural, my hunch is just that our current awe and inability to begin to approach the subject may simply be due to a lack of understanding of the processes at work, but that's admittedly based on faith.

Re:Brain activity of dying people shows signs of near-death ... by afastow on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @09:19PM (#35796521)
If you want to intensify your existential crisis then you might enjoy this interesting half astrophysics half philosophy article from the NY Times today (should be a gift link):

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/02/science/end-of-universe.h...