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Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by amluto on Saturday April 29, 2023 @06:53PM (#35758067)
> you are putting hundreds of times more harmful particulates into the air than the stove puts out alone.

This is true and entirely misses the point.

A gas stove emits NOx. Cooking some foods at high temperature emits particulates. Different cause, different poison. Also, an air filter can easily remove particulates, but getting rid of NOx with anything other than outright replacement of the air is not so easy.

edit: NOx is for real, and calling it a “green” issue is disingenuous. As far as I know, NOx emissions from stoves are not a particular threat to neighbors or overall outdoor air quality. But they are substantial when concentrated in a house:

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.1c04707

(Seriously, look at the last graph in the supplementary material. Admittedly it’s an oven, not a stove, but those levels are no joke and the operating time needed to hit them is low. Baking a pie or cooking a big pot of pasta with a gas oven or stove in a kitchen without proper ventilation is quite unhealthy. And those recirculating carbon filter vents won’t help.

Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by pclmulqdq on Saturday April 29, 2023 @07:24PM (#35758287)
> ADDITION / CORRECTION This article has been corrected. View the notice.

The studies on this are questionable at best regarding the health effects, and it is disingenuous to say that the science on this is anywhere near settled - plenty of refutations exist out there. If you're worried, open a window.

Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by sonarone on Saturday April 29, 2023 @09:39PM (#35758961)
Clicking on the correction shows that correction is just on a single figure, so that's not supporting your argument:

> A corrected version of Figure 3 is below, where in Panel A r2 = 0.59 is changed to r2 = 0.58.

Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by pclmulqdq on Saturday April 29, 2023 @09:58PM (#35759068)
Yeah, I generally follow the idea that if a paper has one revealed error, it probably has a lot more errors that they didn't provide enough evidence to catch, so I didn't read what the correction was. This is a pretty dumb error to get through the writing process.

Also, if you want to see some well-cited posts on the tenuous evidence of health effects of NOx, other posts in this comments section have plenty of sources. Even the link to asthma is pretty tenuous, apparently.

Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by amluto on Saturday April 29, 2023 @11:57PM (#35759578)
On a quick search, NO may not be particularly toxic at the concentrations in question. (And your body produces it!). NO seems like it’s mostly a problem outdoors because of other stuff it reacts with.

But NO2 is certainly toxic, and it looks like stoves product about 1/4 as much NO2 as total NOx.

(I also recall reading that stoves, with no pot or pan on them, produce minimal CO, but that gas ovens produce lots of CO. Also, residential gas ovens are IMO really quite bad at cooking.)

Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by pclmulqdq on Sunday April 30, 2023 @01:18AM (#35759867)
One extra thing about both NO and NO2 that the narrative on this really discounts (but you touched on) is that they are both fairly reactive, so they tend not to linger in the air. This makes them damaging to whatever environment the end up in, but a lot less likely to build up to toxic levels than stable molecules like CO and CO2. The dose makes the poison, and these ones are hard to get in high dosages.

And yeah, the cheap residential gas ovens really suck, and likely put out a lot more of the bad stuff (both CH4 and CO, but also probably the NOx compounds too) than stovetops. Mixed fuel is now the hot thing in ranges: gas burners and electric ovens.