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Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by greedo on Saturday April 29, 2023 @05:34PM (#35757436)
For the same reason that they can say not to use lead paint, or asbestos siding...
Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by superbaconman on Saturday April 29, 2023 @05:48PM (#35757577)
Right but is the particulate matter from burning natural gas any more harmful then the particulate matter from searing protein?
Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by toss1 on Saturday April 29, 2023 @05:56PM (#35757643)
It is not only particulate matter but gaseous combustion products that are the problem, and gas stoves are used for a LOT more than only searing protein, starting with heating tea water.

Also, just because searing protein produces bad indoor pollution, doesn't mean that any other pollution should therefore be automatically ignored. It is purely optional whether you want to use your stove to sear protein (e.g., you won't find any vegans using it for that purpose), but you don't really have an option if the only thing installed is a gas stove to heat your tea water or saute your onions...

Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by iamdamian on Saturday April 29, 2023 @06:07PM (#35757729)
> but you don't really have an option if the only thing installed is a gas stove to heat your tea water or saute your onions...

A cheap electric kettle or standalone burner is an option, isn't it?

And doesn't the research indicate that fume hoods help regardless?

Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by toss1 on Saturday April 29, 2023 @09:13PM (#35758837)
Sure, if you are into buying extra appliances when you already paid for one.

And what about when you want to bake or broil something?

& yes, fume hoods do help, with "help" doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence. They also need to be turned on to work (not likely every time you heat a pot of tea), and are noisy, and waste even more heat, blowing out cubic meters of already heated/cooled air to exhaust milligrams of pollutants. Always better to never generate the pollutants in the first place.

And for the societal-level goals of reducing climate change and improving public health, it is best to do it at a societal scale, not making every individual go and spend resources to redo and workaround the work that has already been done. Far better to just not install the polluting infrastructure in the first place.

Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by SoftTalker on Saturday April 29, 2023 @06:10PM (#35757753)
Basic chemistry, burning methane cleanly produces water and CO2. Neither is anywhere near as dangerous as lead or asbestos.
Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by bhickey on Saturday April 29, 2023 @06:32PM (#35757905)
The real world isn't basic chemistry and we shouldn't flippantly pretend it is. Stove gas also contains nitrogen dioxide, carbon monoxide and formaldehyde. In a study of (approximately) all children in asthma, researchers found that stove gas explains 14% of all asthma cases.
Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by pathartl on Saturday April 29, 2023 @06:25PM (#35757852)
Yes, but natural gas isn't pure methane and CO2 isn't good for the brain. Burning something without a vented hood in a closed space can be incredibly dangerous. Especially if you're talking about high rise apartment buildings where... well... hot gas rises.
Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by engineer_22 on Saturday April 29, 2023 @06:33PM (#35757916)
Humans produce CO2 via cellular respiration, ergo you should not let people inside your home as it's bad for your brain.
Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by otterley on Saturday April 29, 2023 @07:38PM (#35758374)
Can you please make arguments in good faith? You’re being a jerk all over this thread.
Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by engineer_22 on Sunday April 30, 2023 @03:00PM (#35765539)
I am only a mirror, you see what is reflected unto you.
Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by dschuler on Saturday April 29, 2023 @06:24PM (#35757851)
It does produce a little bit of CO and NOx as well, but newer furnaces control the air mixture to keep those pretty low.
Re:New York to Ban Natural Gas, Including Stoves, in New Bui... by Cthulhu_ on Sunday April 30, 2023 @07:39AM (#35761660)
I mean your argument is sound enough in that a household's CO2 emissions are trivial compared to big industry or global ecosystem collapse, but that's not the only argument.

Europe found itself in a huge conundrum last year when Russia cut off the gas supply, highlighting our dependency on cheap Russian gas. It meant households went cold and lost their primary means of hot water and cooking - not so much because there was no gas, but because it was unaffordable.

But in my neck of the woods, removing dependency on gas had been ongoing for a while already for various motivations. One reason to do more with electricity, for example, is because people have cheap solar panels on their roofs now, using that to heat their house is (seems?) more self-reliant, cheaper, and less environmentally impactful in the long run.

And sure, one house won't make a difference, neither will a thousand. But it'll start to make an impact at scale.

There is no one fix for climate change, it will take tens of thousands of small changes and legislation over the span of decades.