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Re:Are pull requests bad because they originate from open-so... by dahart on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @09:56AM (#35700533)
> PR is about verifying

This is interesting as a counterpoint to trusting, but it’s funny, I’ve never thought about PRs in either of those terms, not within a team or company anyway. The Pull Request can also be about the code writer asking for review, asking the question ‘is this generally the right way to go?’ The funny thing about projecting ‘trust’ and ‘verification’ onto the process is that PRs simply do not prevent all or even most accidents, automated builds and tests are better at that. PRs can help steer things in the right direction, and they’re good as one of many tools for mentoring people about code they’re unfamiliar with. But PRs can also be used as the opposite of verification: if the reviewer is responsible for verification then PRs can be a CYA where the reviewer is implicated in a mistake along with the writer.

Re:Are pull requests bad because they originate from open-so... by lowercased on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @10:38AM (#35701123)
I've had groups where I eventually 'approved' a PR, because... deadlines... even when it wasn't meeting defined standards (primarily around tests/docs). Comments like "please add a test" or "please document X" were just ignored (both inside the version control system and in slack). Eventually, I would merge, and occasionally, we'd hit some bug, trace it back to that, and I would catch blame for "passing" it. Not the person who wrote it, not the same person who didn't test it or add any automated tests. I did, even though I was doing so under protest. The couple times I added to their PR - added a test to verify behaviour, for example - I got called out for "stepping on others' code". Apparently if you went out on smoke breaks with 'the guys', they were 'cool' wit h you and that was the political way of getting people 'on your side' to go along with stuff. Very ... odd dynamics. Apparently, if you're dating the dept head's niece, writing tests was optional, but I never got that memo.
Re:Are pull requests bad because they originate from open-so... by recursive on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @10:49AM (#35701265)
Simple solution to that is don't pass it. When the deadline comes, you'll have the reason documented.
Re:Are pull requests bad because they originate from open-so... by dkersten on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @11:49AM (#35702129)
That sounds like a team problem. In my team, contents get addressed and team members don’t approve PR’s they don’t feel meet standards even if there are deadlines.
Re:Are pull requests bad because they originate from open-so... by lowercased on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @10:59AM (#35714709)
Glad things get addressed for you. In some places I've worked, they don't. They carry on like my post above.

I did have a 6 month contract with a fairly tight team back in 2019, and it was definitely overall a positive experience. Mix of experience levels, and they were growing perhaps a bit too fast, but there was enough balance and communication. Most people were on site, which did, I think, help out some. I know "remote only 100%" is everyone's favorite 'go to' mode (mine too) but there's some extra discipline and rigor the whole org needs to have to function smoothly to get the best out of a mostly or fully remote workforce.

Re:Are pull requests bad because they originate from open-so... by Zobat on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @10:57AM (#35701365)
As someone who works in (and leads) the development of a 100k LOC project with four developers (project lead, tech lead and two junior developers) I see pull requests as a way for other members (often me or tech lead) to 1) spot clunky code 2) spot things that already exist in the code and should be unified 3) a way to teach and be taught about how we want the code to work.

I know that "my" team members look at PRs as more of a safety net for oopsies than evidence of lack of trust between team members. We allow self approval of PRs so that if/when someone is the only developer working they can still push code if needed.

When I started in the project we did not use PRs and we all agree that they have made the code better and that they have unified our coding style (the fact that Visual Studio/ReSharper auto-formats changed code also helps with that aspect).