Exactly. Humans are part of the system, so human factors matter to reliability.

> We need power sources that have some resilience to those things.

None of the power sources have resilience to politics.

No but some are more resilient than others. It is much easier politically to shut a nuclear power station down than remove dirty wood burners from people's houses.

Can you give an example of a power source that is resilient to politics? I struggle to imagine what that would even look like.

Coal power plants, wind turbines and mostly anything else. They can end up catastrophic in a sense, but not to the same degree nuclear fission plants can end up.

Coal has killed tens of millions from air pollution alone. Civilian nuclear power has probably killed on the order of a few thousand, at most. The studies that say millions have died as a result from Chernobyl is propaganda funded by Greenpeace and friends.

> Coal has killed tens of millions from air pollution alone.

That stat is effectively impossible to nail down after the fact. Air pollution is one metric of am extremely complex system, and coal or any other energy source is one of countless inputs impacting the environment simultaneously. At best we can design and run models to help get clues on what impact any one input has, but those models will always be rough hints at correlation with results that are heavily influenced by the assumptions used when designing the model.

You are correct that any studies claiming to put a number on how many deaths should be attributed to Chernobyl is propaganda. That holds true for the rest as well though, including any claims of exactly how many have died due to coal or cow farts for example.

> That stat is effectively impossible to nail down after the fact

Sure, but given how long we've been burning coal and how dirty it is I'm positive that tens of millions is a gross undercount. It's not about getting an exact number. We're looking for orders of magnitudes here.

Orders of magnitude really don't gloss over huge confidence intervals though, that's just attempting to game the stats.

I get what you're going for and anecdotally that number doesn't even seem crazy if you're going back through our entire history of coal. At the end of the day that number simply didn't exist though, and any time someone uses a start like that to bank up an argument it's just propaganda. Having a bunch that number should be accurate is very different from being able to use it as part of a larger discussion of what the biggest problems are and how to improve it.

None of those are resilient to politics.

See for solar: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35661918

Same for everything else. Green Party in Britain is campaigning against literally everything including offshore wind: https://twitter.com/stuarthammond14/status/16486453145621217...

Solar + battery doesn’t bother anyone. Wind turbines have mild resistance from people who think they are an eyesore or people worried about migratory birds.

I wish it were true that solar and battery projects didn't bother anyone. Some recent examples of opposition to solar and battery projects:

"Jacumba residents sue to stop 600-acre solar project"

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2021-09-...

"Proposed battery storage site in Eden Valley prompts local worries"

https://thecoastnews.com/proposed-battery-storage-site-in-ed...

"The Energy Transition Runs Into a Ditch in Rural Ohio"

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/29072022/williamsport-ohi...

"An activist group is stopping rural US solar farms with lies"

https://electrek.co/2023/02/20/an-activist-group-is-stopping...

"Marin battery storage project sparks early opposition"

https://www.marinij.com/2023/03/13/marin-battery-storage-pro...

Solar on roof has no resistance, but solar plants takes a lot of space and it starts being a source of conflict in some places of France. It's important to take everyone opinion into account to avoid doing stupid things like putting wind turbines way too close to people houses or farms.

Name a thing that is resilient to both neglect and human politics. We'll wait.

Some things are more resilient to those things than others.

No power source is resilient to politics unfortunately.

Politics can fuck up everything.