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Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by nomilk on Thursday April 20, 2023 @10:47AM (#35640906)
The height difference is not huge, but Starship is twice the weight and 1/10th the cost ($50b vs $5bn in 2022 USD)!
Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by 93po on Thursday April 20, 2023 @11:00AM (#35641157)
And twice the thrust
Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by samstave on Thursday April 20, 2023 @03:46PM (#35645272)
Is 2x thrust accomplished by scaling # of engines, or are the engines 'more-thrustful' per unit because of engineering advances?
Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by scrumper on Thursday April 20, 2023 @04:10PM (#35645621)
SV first stage had 5 engines, vs 33 on the Starship's booster. Which I think answers your question :)

I don't know about other metrics for comparing engine efficiency. But the design requirements seem quite different here - they have to be restartable (not something the F1 engines on the SV had to worry about), probably more steerable, and able to throttle down to quite low power for landing. And presumably the fact that there's so many in an array also imposes its own constraints on the design.

Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by samstave on Thursday April 20, 2023 @04:44PM (#35646016)
>>Which I think answers your question :) "

it doesnt, please eLI5

Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by kfarr on Thursday April 20, 2023 @05:54PM (#35646935)
More engines make it go fast
Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by barbacoa on Thursday April 20, 2023 @08:29PM (#35648388)
Having a whole bunch of engines means loosing a few at launch won't end in disaster. That means you can pursue more high-risk, high-performance engine designs.
Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by vkou on Friday April 21, 2023 @01:04AM (#35649979)
The N1 was designed with 30 engines, under that same theory.

It, uh, didn't do so well. As it turns out, getting 30 rocket engines to run at once is not trivial.

Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by mlyle on Sunday April 23, 2023 @12:37PM (#35677769)
> > > Is 2x thrust accomplished by scaling # of engines, or are the engines 'more-thrustful' per unit because of engineering advances?

> > SV first stage had 5 engines, vs 33 on the Starship's booster. Which I think answers your question :)

> it doesnt, please eLI5

I kinda suspect bad faith/trolling, but if not... 6.5 times the number of engines for twice the thrust means that you are getting less thrust per engine.

Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by samstave on Sunday April 23, 2023 @03:49PM (#35679824)
No trolling, but one of the the things I like to promote on HN is for people to ELI5 as much as possible, given the fact that our knowledge will evaporate over time... so I want people to, as much as possible, divulge as much as one can before they kick the can...

What are you an SME on that should be catalogued.

Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by mlyle on Sunday April 23, 2023 @04:11PM (#35680030)
Yah, I just though this wasn't really subject matter expertise. It's not quite ELI"5", but I thought reasoning using ratios would be universal/intuitive.
Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by mempko on Thursday April 20, 2023 @10:54AM (#35641039)
Starship at this point is mostly a shell. Internal human grade components aren't there yet. We have no idea what the final cost will be. But doesn't matter since NASA is the one paying.
Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by 93po on Thursday April 20, 2023 @11:02AM (#35641203)
What? This makes zero sense. The cost to create a crew capsule is extremely well understood because they've been made countless times before. Also to imply the cost of that would put any dent whatsoever into the 5b vs 50b comparison is ridiculous. The cost of adding a crew capsule is a rounding error on total cost.
Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by edgyquant on Thursday April 20, 2023 @11:43AM (#35641811)
Even a 100 man crew capsule?
Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by adastra22 on Thursday April 20, 2023 @03:42PM (#35645204)
Nobody is thinking about 100-person crew compartments at this time.
Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by Denvercoder9 on Thursday April 20, 2023 @11:07AM (#35641284)
> We have no idea what the final cost will be. But doesn't matter since NASA is the one paying.

The HLS contract SpaceX has gotten from NASA is a fixed-fee contract (like most contracts NASA gives out these days), so the final cost absolutely matters to SpaceX's bottom line. Anything they spend beyond the contracted amount they'll have to come up with themselves. A good example of this is Boeing, which is now booking losses on the Starliner program every quarter because it has gone over time and budget.

Re:SpaceX giant rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas by panick21_ on Thursday April 20, 2023 @04:47PM (#35646059)
Actually we do know what NASA will be paying. Its all in the public contract. And its fixed cost, so it will not cost NASA more, no matter how often it blows up.

That doesn't give us details about how much it will cost SpaceX but its good information.