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Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by bob1029 on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:17PM (#35606704)
I strongly believe the next generation of models will be based upon spiking neural concepts wherein action potentials are lazily-evaluated throughout the network (i.e. event-driven). There are a few neuron models that can be modified (at some expense to fidelity) in order to tolerate arbitrary delays between simulation ticks. Using actual latency between neurons as a means of encoding information seems absolutely essential if we are trying to emulate biology in any meaningful way.

Spiking networks also lend themselves nicely to some elegant learning rules, such as STDP. Being able to perform unsupervised learning at the grain of each action potential is really important in my mind. This gives you all kinds of ridiculous capabilities, most notably being the ability to train the model while it's live in production (learning & use are effectively the same thing).

These networks also provide a sort of deterministic, event-over-time tracing that is absent in the models we see today. In my prototypes, the action potentials are serialized through a ring buffer, and then logged off to a database in order to perfectly replay any given session. This information can be used to bootstrap the model (offline training) by "rewinding" things very precisely and otherwise branching time to your advantage.

The #1 reason I've been thinking about this path is that low-latency, serialized, real-time signal processing is somewhat antagonistic to GPU acceleration. I fear there is an appreciable % of AI research predicated on some notion that you need at least 1 beefy GPU to start doing your work. Looking at fintech, we are able to discover some very interesting pieces of technology which can service streams of events at unbelievable rates and scales - and they only depend on a handful of CPU cores in order to achieve this.

Right now, I think A Time Domain Is All You Need. I was inspired to go outside of the box by this paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2304.06035. Part 11 got me thinking.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by eternalban on Monday April 17, 2023 @06:28PM (#35607492)
I'm bullish on SNNs too. This Chinese research group is doing something quite comprehensive with them:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35037605

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by MagicMoonlight on Monday April 17, 2023 @06:34PM (#35607553)
I know what it looks like in my head but I can’t quite figure the algorithm out. The spiking is basically reinforcement learning at the neuron level. Get it right and it’s basically all you need. You don’t even need training data because it will just automagically learn from the data it sees.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by sdenton4 on Monday April 17, 2023 @07:10PM (#35607851)
Meh, people have been trying to ape biological networks for decades and they consistently produce poor functioning versions of the leading edge... Why wouldn't we have already seen spiking networks contribute something by now?
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by forrest2 on Monday April 17, 2023 @07:37PM (#35608090)
I think people said the same thing about NNs in general before we hit a scale where they started performing magic.

There could be exponential or quadratic scaling laws with any of these black boxes that makes one approach suddenly extremely viable or even dominant.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by bob1029 on Monday April 17, 2023 @08:19PM (#35608414)
> There could be exponential or quadratic scaling laws with any of these black boxes that makes one approach suddenly extremely viable or even dominant.

The reason I like the CPU approach is the memory scaling is bonkers compared to GPU. You can buy a server that has 12TB of DRAM (in stock right now) for the cost of 1 of those H100 GPU systems. This is enough memory to hold over 3 trillion parameters with full 32-bit FP resolution. Employ some downsampling and you could get even more ridiculous.

If 12TB isn't enough, you can always reach for things like RDMA and high speed interconnects. You could probably get 100 trillion parameters into 1 rack. At some point you'll need to add hierarchy to the SNN so that multiple racks & datacenters can work together.

Imagine the power savings... It's not exactly a walk in the park, but those DIMMs are very eco friendly compared to GPUs. You don't need a whole lot of CPU cores in my proposal either. 8-16 very fast cores per box would probably be more than enough, looking at how fintech does things. 1 thread is actually running the entire show in my current prototype. The other threads are for spike timers & managing other external signals.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by suby on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:39PM (#35609329)
Is your current prototype open source?
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by Ambix on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @08:41AM (#35613210)
Not the TS, but that's actually the same goal I have in mind with [0] project.

Right now I'm building my homelab server which aimed to fit 1 TB RAM and 2 CPUs with ~100 cores total.

It will cost like 0.1% of what I need to pay for GPU cluster with the same memory size :)

[0] https://github.com/gotzmann/llama.go/

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by habitue on Monday April 17, 2023 @08:12PM (#35608363)
> Why wouldn't we have already seen spiking networks contribute something by now?

This presupposes we've explored this space thoroughly, and we haven't. When everything you do with NNs improves results (how it mostly is now), that means not enough people are trying out ideas and new things.

I don't think you can invoke EMH-like reasoning quite yet. Give us a nice long winter like physics has had, and then we can use this heuristic.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by sdenton4 on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:06PM (#35609134)
It's not strictly a question of trying Everything and seeing what sticks.

There's a hypothesis in the parent comment - better handling of the time domain will lead to better modeling - which is actually fairly independent of architecture. So, there's going to be a number of possible ways to build better time modeling, ranging from tweaks to existing architecture to completely rebuilding Rome. So, if better time modeling really is a limitation, you don't need to rebuild Rome to find out.

In fact, I might argue that S4 layers already provide this improved time handling in the current world, and is proving very successful, which would again widen the moat for SNNs.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by pessimizer on Monday April 17, 2023 @08:16PM (#35608388)
I'm constantly telling this to people who don't know what I'm talking about and don't know why I brought it up at a wedding, but I think it's inevitable.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by adomasven on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @02:58AM (#35610818)
This is like trying to build a more sophisticated bird-costume for flight instead of a steel flying machine. Human intelligence has a lot of features that are not necessary for artificial intelligence, because it doesn't have to build itself from ground-up using biology.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by 00117 on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @04:06AM (#35611286)
Do we want to train the model during inference? I would think we want to be very particular about the data used to train - notably after OpenAI's notes on the subject.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by mschuster91 on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @04:25AM (#35611378)
> This gives you all kinds of ridiculous capabilities, most notably being the ability to train the model while it's live in production (learning & use are effectively the same thing).

Bad, BAD idea. Remember the Tay chatbot, which 4chan managed to turn into a raging Nazi in the matter of a few hours?

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by AbrahamParangi on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @09:59AM (#35614128)
I don’t know how much the biological inspiration is a useful abstraction anymore. I’ve gone from thinking of matrix operations as an efficient way to implement neural networks to thinking of neural networks as a complicated sort of allegory for chained matrix ops and it feels much more natural to me.