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Re:Shutting down nuclear power could increase air pollution:... by KennyBlanken on Monday April 10, 2023 @07:56PM (#35518929)
People constantly raise the "coAl poLLuTiON!" argument and always do so with a false choice between nuclear and fossil fuel, completely ignoring any renewables like solar, wind, or hydro.

If you're accusing people of not learning to count, maybe you should look at the cost of solar, wind, and energy storage systems - and realize that nuclear is being phased out because it's too expensive, and that's despite nearly a century of heavy government subsidization.

It is, in fact, getting more expensive, while wind and solar get less expensive.

Re:Shutting down nuclear power could increase air pollution:... by shakow on Monday April 10, 2023 @08:20PM (#35519104)
> a false choice between nuclear and fossil fuel

That's not a false choice, there is also hydro (unfortunately my country is more or less saturated there), solar (OK if you're a really sunny country and only need electricity during the day, not so great otherwise) and wind (30% average load factor, risible cost efficiency, huge surface required, needs to be rebuilt every ~10 years).

> maybe you should look at the cost of solar, wind, and energy storage systems - and realize that nuclear is being phased out because it's too expensive,

Tell me then, is that why Germany, after sinking dozens of billions over dozens of billions of euros in renewable, is still producing electricity with carbonation level closer to Bulgaria & Poland than France or Belgium, AND has to buy them electricity whenever there is no wind, and sell it at low price when there is too much wind?

But yes, please, show me these numbers.

Re:Shutting down nuclear power could increase air pollution:... by natmaka on Tuesday April 11, 2023 @01:15AM (#35521122)
> 30% average load factor

Offshore is way better, up to .6

> risible cost efficiency

This is not true, see the LCOE:

> huge surface required

Offshore solves this and also offers quasi-sanctuaries to our over-exploited seas.

> needs to be rebuilt every ~10 years

https://www.tvindkraft.dk/en/history/the-first-40-years

Moreover the are more and more efficiently recycled.

Re:Shutting down nuclear power could increase air pollution:... by natmaka on Tuesday April 11, 2023 @01:18AM (#35521142)
France does not further reduces its emissions related to electricity production since 2002, when its newest nuclear reactor, Civaux-2, started.

Germany nowadays reduces its emissions faster than France, while losing its industry at a way slower pace. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita?t...

Re:Shutting down nuclear power could increase air pollution:... by shakow on Tuesday April 11, 2023 @03:00AM (#35521771)
I do hop they reduce their emissions faster, because God knows they have a long path to go down https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iNLUw70c8Yw/VuCyTjcOxQI/AAAAAAAAA...

With an average at 560 gCO2/kWh vs. 47 gCO2/kWh, the opposite would be surprising.

Re:Shutting down nuclear power could increase air pollution:... by natmaka on Tuesday April 11, 2023 @06:44AM (#35523267)
Electricity is only part of the challenge (about 25%).

CO2 emissions per capita: France 5.82t Germany 10.14t

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prod-cons-co2-per-capita?...

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prod-cons-co2-per-capita?...

Re:Shutting down nuclear power could increase air pollution:... by shakow on Tuesday April 11, 2023 @06:55AM (#35523327)
All I see is that France is doing much better than Germany in electricity production and in the rest, so I'm not sure what your point is.
Re:Shutting down nuclear power could increase air pollution:... by kilotaras on Tuesday April 11, 2023 @03:46AM (#35522084)
> Germany nowadays reduces its emissions faster than France

Comparing derivative doesn't make much sense if the starting point is wildly different.

When do you think Germany's emissions per capita will be lower than France?

Re:Shutting down nuclear power could increase air pollution:... by natmaka on Tuesday April 11, 2023 @06:41AM (#35523231)
> Comparing derivative doesn't make much sense if the starting point is wildly different.

Indeed, however this is commonly done and I only state that upon this criteria things aren't exactly what they seem.

Moreover this is heavy industry: there is quite an inertia, therefore Germany (starting later with an immature approach (renewables) while dumping existing equipment (nuclear)) is facing an ordeal.

> When do you think Germany's emissions per capita will be lower than France?

This is difficult to predict because it is tied to future decisions and their results, however if France bets 100% on new reactors (either deliberately or because building new reactors continue to sucks too much money while not delivering) and doesn't tackle its current industrial crash it may be done by 2040.

Re:Shutting down nuclear power could increase air pollution:... by RealityVoid on Tuesday April 11, 2023 @01:58AM (#35521364)
Sure, let's close fossil fuel power generation and let's see what direction we will take. It's not an nuclear OR solar, it's an AND over there.

As it stands, I would leave the markets, since apparently they're sooo effective, choose what power source would fill in the gaps.