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Re:Apple Continues Efforts to Keep Retail Stores from Unioni... by anonymouskimmer on Sunday April 09, 2023 @02:22PM (#35505117)
> The animus around unequal benefits ought to be directed to their union leaders, who need to do their fucking jobs and bargain for the benefits.

If you don't actively support your union by signing petitions, being a member (US unions can no longer collect funds from non-members, so membership rates matter), and voting to take action, there's not much the leaders can do. There's still some things the leadership can do, but it's typically not action that will get the company to do anything.

> you will only get what you bargain for

Negotiating in bad faith does happen. At my job management quickly agreed to, and paid out early, our bargaining. And then a month and a half after it was signed gave out out-of-cycle inflation raises to non-represented employees. The first time this has happened that I know of. And my union can't do anything about it for a few years because our contract is signed.

Management said that all raises, even this special out-of-cycle one, was subject to negotiation. Even though our bargained contract stated that out-of-cycle raises could happen without negotiation. Heads they win, tails we lose.

Re:Apple Continues Efforts to Keep Retail Stores from Unioni... by peyton on Sunday April 09, 2023 @02:57PM (#35505400)
That’s what you signed up for.
Re:Apple Continues Efforts to Keep Retail Stores from Unioni... by anonymouskimmer on Sunday April 09, 2023 @03:01PM (#35505433)
No, I didn't sign up for disrespect and lies. Regardless, even this is better than the alternative I had before (years working as a permatemp, no yearly raise above 2%, even with outstanding ratings). At least now I can vent my ire at the boss without getting fired.
Re:Apple Continues Efforts to Keep Retail Stores from Unioni... by catiopatio on Sunday April 09, 2023 @03:23PM (#35505606)
Of course you did. You signed up for an explicitly adversarial relationship with your employer.
Re:Apple Continues Efforts to Keep Retail Stores from Unioni... by anonymouskimmer on Sunday April 09, 2023 @03:28PM (#35505645)
Are municipal governments adversarial with the state? Some states think so, and go about banning municipalities from passing particular kinds of laws. And some municipalities also think so, and pass particular laws contrary to state law. But I think most people don't think this way about their municipal government and the state government.

I signed up to have a level of representative government intermediate between me and the employer. I didn't sign up because this was an adversarial intermediation. In fact I'm happier when it isn't. I'm more than okay working toward the common good, I just want this common good decided between the parties through negotiation, not handed down from on high. And I want this common good negotiation equally available to all employees, not just those with the most personal clout.

Re:Apple Continues Efforts to Keep Retail Stores from Unioni... by catiopatio on Sunday April 09, 2023 @04:54PM (#35506390)
Citizens and municipal and state governments are not in an employment relationship and are not remotely comparable to one.

> I'm more than okay working toward the common good, I just want this common good decided between the parties through negotiation, not handed down from on high.

What you’ve just described is an inherently adversarial relationship with an employer by virtue of your desire to co-opt ownership and authority over their business.

Re:Apple Continues Efforts to Keep Retail Stores from Unioni... by SturgeonsLaw on Sunday April 09, 2023 @10:19PM (#35508516)
Negotiating individually for a pay increase is also adversarial. More money for me means less money for my employer, our interests are in direct contradiction.
Re:Apple Continues Efforts to Keep Retail Stores from Unioni... by ClumsyPilot on Sunday April 09, 2023 @03:52PM (#35505845)
This reminds be of a mysogynistic argument I once heard:

When wife gets a job she signs up for an adverserial relationship with her husband

Re:Apple Continues Efforts to Keep Retail Stores from Unioni... by catiopatio on Sunday April 09, 2023 @04:54PM (#35506394)
How is that relevant to this discussion?
Re:Apple Continues Efforts to Keep Retail Stores from Unioni... by uni_rule on Sunday April 09, 2023 @03:52PM (#35505846)
Do you feel the same way about police unions and the tax paying public?
Re:Apple Continues Efforts to Keep Retail Stores from Unioni... by richwater on Sunday April 09, 2023 @04:01PM (#35505940)
Yes. Public unions are adversarial to the tax payer. They advocate for their personal benefit at the expense of other tax payers.
Re:Apple Continues Efforts to Keep Retail Stores from Unioni... by peyton on Sunday April 09, 2023 @07:39PM (#35507562)
I think it’s disingenuous to paint a decision in the framework you agreed upon as “disrespect and lies.”
Re:Apple Continues Efforts to Keep Retail Stores from Unioni... by anonymouskimmer on Sunday April 09, 2023 @09:39PM (#35508294)
Of the things that I posted, this is what I'm calling a lie: "Management said that all raises, even this special out-of-cycle one, was subject to negotiation. Even though our bargained contract stated that out-of-cycle raises could happen without negotiation."