Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

Re:Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April by nradov on Monday April 03, 2023 @06:43PM (#35432378)

That's the wrong question to ask. From an amoral game theory perspective, the real question is: how can we bleed Russia to death? The ideal outcome would be to trigger multiple civil wars in Russia where various provinces break away from Moscow, leaving the rump successor state no more of a threat than North Korea. In that scenario, Russia would still have to be taken seriously as a nuclear threat but would no longer have enough conventional force to seriously threaten most of their neighbors.

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Re:Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April by smegger001 on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:30PM (#35433812)

thats not ideal either a bunch of breakaway states would be eaten by china which is not something NATO wants either.

from the wets prospective a quick internal cue falloewed by regim change to a more western friendly pro democracy leader that ideally is afraid of china would be the best outcome.

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Re:Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April by actionfromafar on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @10:48AM (#35440523)

The best outcome, temporarily. It's not a stable situation. What happens next? Russia will get eaten by China anyways, the question now is, will it be piecemeal or in one big chunk.

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Re:Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April by foverzar on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @12:17PM (#35442000)

> Russia will get eaten by China anyways

Wonder what is the realistic incentive for that?

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Re:Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April by actionfromafar on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @12:42PM (#35442399)

China will not annex Russia or anything like that. But their government has everything to gain from extracting concessions from Russia. Russias influence is already waning in Central Asia, and China is eager to fill that role.

Russia is on its way to becoming hamstrung by China. Who else can Russia turn to?

China does not want Russia to implode and fracture, because that is an unstable situation for them. But if Russia was to fracture, you can be sure that China will want to control the pieces bordering China. They don't want chaos on their borders, or the power vacuum there somehow filled by western powers.

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Re:Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April by foverzar on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @01:52PM (#35443465)

But how would the relationship you're describing be different from early post-Cold War era relationships between Russia and Europe?

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Re:Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April by actionfromafar on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @04:29PM (#35445470)

Europe is more democratic and has more liberty than China.

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Re:Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April by foverzar on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @05:08AM (#35451335)

Might be, but that wouldn't affect Russia that much specifically.

China's and Europe's attitudes and practices towards their let's say "dependent trade and strategic partners" is a different story, but EU can hardly boast on that front, judging e.g. by various African states.

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