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Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by rcme on Monday April 03, 2023 @04:57PM (#35431178)
If Gitlab wants to increase peoples' lifetime earning, why not start with its own employees? Didn't they layoff hundreds of people?
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by sosodev on Monday April 03, 2023 @05:02PM (#35431238)
Yes, they let go 130 employees a couple of months ago. They're also a company whose remote pay is dependent on location. So they're unwilling to pay people what they're actually worth.
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by pmoriarty on Monday April 03, 2023 @05:29PM (#35431550)
"They're also a company whose remote pay is dependent on location."

What is it with companies doing this? It never made sense to me that a company would pay me more or less depending on where I lived. If I'm doing the same work why should my location matter?

Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by robopsychology on Monday April 03, 2023 @05:35PM (#35431613)
I use it to my advantage - if I'm remote working for the Bay Area I can double my local salary but still be significantly lower than a Bay Area local.
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by rrgok on Monday April 03, 2023 @05:33PM (#35431593)
Oh man, I agree with you. The typical answer is: market.

But on a side note, this should make us blatantly clear that, all else being equal, our work has no inherent value.

Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by ingonealan3 on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @12:58AM (#35435267)
To take the point further: nothing, ultimately, has any inherent value.
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by geodel on Monday April 03, 2023 @08:07PM (#35433239)
Yeah, just like you pay same price for house, food, daycare, school, medical treatment and so on. If it is same square foot why does it matter if house is in Cleveland, Ohio or San Francisco, CA.
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by 908B64B197 on Monday April 03, 2023 @05:29PM (#35431549)
> They're also a company whose remote pay is dependent on location. So they're unwilling to pay people what they're actually worth.

They are also paying significantly less than their competitors. No wonder they are falling behind.

I have no clue what this "foundation" is, the wording is extremely vague.

Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by HatchedLake721 on Monday April 03, 2023 @05:51PM (#35431804)
Evil GitLab is unwilling to pay people what they're actually worth. Poor GitLab employees worldwide cannot resist from being taken advantage and have to work for unworthy amounts...

Every time GitLab comes up someone will bring this topic up.

San Francisco salaries are not a worldwide benchmark of people's worth.

There are valid reasons why GitLab doesn't pay engineers in Kenya $200k.

Should I also swing your logic the other way?

If an engineer in Kenya for $50k does the same work and output as you, a $200k engineer in SF, can we now say you're being overpaid 4x what you're actually worth?

If people don't understand why companies pays local labour market rates, either look at GitLab's income statement and multiply 2000 employees by your definition of "worth" or start your own business and show how everyone in the world can pay 8 billion people the same salaries. Good luck.

https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/total-rewards/compensation...

https://about.gitlab.com/blog/2019/02/28/why-we-pay-local-ra...

Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by leereeves on Monday April 03, 2023 @06:18PM (#35432101)
> If an engineer in Kenya for $50k does the same work and output as you, a $200k engineer in SF, can we now say you're being overpaid 4x what you're actually worth?

No. If GitLab thought the work was only worth $50k, they wouldn't pay anyone anywhere $200k for the job.

If they do pay $200k for the job anywhere, they must expect to receive more than $200k in return, and pocket the difference.

Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by ojosilva on Monday April 03, 2023 @06:58PM (#35432527)
It doesn't work like that. It's more like: there's a 250k budget. We got an ex-googler-ex-meta-kid for 200k, so that leaves us 50k for a... Kenya engineer. Then, once both are on-boarded, gee, the Kenya engineer is twice as productive as the googler kid. Jackpot!
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by leereeves on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @12:20AM (#35435019)
Exactly, jackpot! Because the Kenyan engineer is getting paid a lot less than he's worth.
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by M95D on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @06:07AM (#35451746)
Why do they need an ex-googler-ex-meta-kid then? Why not 5 Kenya engineers?
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by ojosilva on Wednesday April 05, 2023 @07:37AM (#35452394)
Because the "HR-system" has a high-salary bonus payoff in many cases (think of headhunters who get paid as % of the hire's pay). HR people also work on a "prize" mindset, the word "headhunter" says it all. Getting someone out of a FAANG into your team is highly valued, independently of early performance indicators. The whole IT team thing also has a social-status and peer-pressure game on, so the next hire may ask "who will I'll be working with?". Finally, hiring is imperfect, it's human nature almost all the way and it suffers from a lot of guesswork, due to lack of hard data on the candidate, scarcity and critical time pressure on the process. So hiring managers are biased and tend to project an image of who they are hiring based on prejudices and a rigid mindset.

It needs to be pointed out that, although an ex-googler may not be as productive as our imaginary highly productive Kenyan engineer, they could bring valuable experience with things such latest/secretive tech, hot contacts in the business with the resulting network effects, great communication skills and novel and healthy work habits and team culture.

Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by prepend on Monday April 03, 2023 @06:46PM (#35432412)
People are not paid based on their value. They are paid based on what the labor market drives. There’s some relationship to value, but it depends on how many people can and are willing to do the job.
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by wellthisisgreat on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @02:58AM (#35436046)
People are actually worth what they are able to get paid, and are willing to accept. Period. End of story.
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by TheCoelacanth on Monday April 03, 2023 @05:49PM (#35431777)
That would result in a $1 increase per dollar spent, which is 1% of the ROI they're aiming for.
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by phailhaus on Monday April 03, 2023 @06:25PM (#35432167)
Increasing people's lifetime earnings != "you shouldn't be allowed to fire anyone, ever." I mean come on.
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by rcme on Monday April 03, 2023 @11:23PM (#35434604)
I understand your point, but Gitlab is a productivity company. They increase peoples' lifetime earnings by making them more productive, allowing them to increase their economic output and demand more compensation for their labor. Laying off people is an admission that Gitlab isn't able to deploy additional capital towards making people more productive anymore. So to then announce that Gitlab is establishing this foundation just seems like delusional management.
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by phailhaus on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @09:53AM (#35439637)
That doesn't follow. Laying off people is an admission that they hired more people than they need, that's it.

It's like saying "wow Red Cross, why not just invest in your own employees before you talk about improving other people's lives????"

Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by rcme on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @09:58AM (#35439722)
> That doesn't follow. Laying off people is an admission that they hired more people than they need, that's it.

Yes, exactly. Gitlab reached their ability to deploy capital and need to scale back head count.

Using your Red Cross example, it's like the Red Cross announcing a new initiative outside of their area of expertise to help people while actively scaling back programs they had in place to help people.

Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by phailhaus on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @10:06AM (#35439835)
Yes, and that would be valid if the new initiative is intended to help more people. That should be obvious! GitLab laid off 120 employees. 120 people, that's it. Don't you think that this new initiative is meant to help more than that?
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by rcme on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @01:13PM (#35442848)
Gitlab is a productivity company. People use productivity products because it increases their lifetime earnings, e.g. this product will allow me to do more work and doing more work will allow me to earn more money. The layoffs aren’t just about the 120 employees. The layoffs show that Gitlab is out of ideas about how to make its users more productive. As a company, Gitlab is clearly falling behind GitHub. So this foundation just seems silly.
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by phailhaus on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @02:16PM (#35443832)
> The layoffs show that Gitlab is out of ideas about how to make its users more productive.

I'm not sure you understand what layoffs are...They happen when a company grows their headcount faster than they can monetize it. Layoffs don't mean "zero ideas", they mean "growing slower than their headcount."

You can have layoffs but announce new initiatives in the same week.

Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by geodel on Monday April 03, 2023 @07:46PM (#35433050)
While we are at it why not double executive salary. It will increase their lifetime earning.
Re:Gitlab foundation established to increase people’s lifeti... by apple4ever on Monday April 03, 2023 @10:14PM (#35434103)
It would also help if they improved their product with better pricing.