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Re:ChatGPT – The Revolutionary Bullshit Parrot by mdp2021 on Friday March 31, 2023 @05:25PM (#35393886)
> You automatically assign the ability to "reason" to a human even when we make mistakes aplenty. But when a machine does it, you said that is a proof of unintelligence ... requirements applied only on the AI and not humans

Whereas I apply them requirements also to humans? :)

I must correct you, to help understanding: I do assign in general (I hope, to all individuals but for an n-th standard deviation) «the ability to "reason" to a human»; that «we make mistakes aplenty» is overriding (or under-using) a faculty which was present but, in those cases, was not exercised.

You write «when a machine does it»: but can the machine do it? Can it criticize its ontological contents, its built concepts? Humans can, and pretty much must - deontically. The machine should.

> we have to put in extra effort

Exactly. We can, many don't, and the machine should - just like people in general should.

> the problem you are trying to say

While people do not always exercise critical thinking, they should. Verifying, trying your ideas and concepts, making them solid, should be a constant effort. Humans have those modules, which makes them apt to possibly be employed as "predicting machines" (which is a definition of intelligence), or "things you can ask things".

When you build a machine that produces outputs, they may be "for fun", so every generator goes that satisfies the "fun" based "performance indicator", but more normally you will want the output to be reliable. So, the "verification" features are crucial.

> Something can be both undesirable and normal

In engineering, I hope not :)

Re:ChatGPT – The Revolutionary Bullshit Parrot by galaxytachyon on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:48PM (#35395352)
If I understood you correctly, you are asserting that the LLMs entirely lack the "self-awareness" or "critical thinking" part while human simply doesn't use it enough but we are all born with it and always have that ability as a built-in feature, inherent to our beings?

If so, then you are right on the machine's part. The current LLMs can't change its own weights thus in a sense, incapable of questioning its own existence. It can't perform a highly philosophical debate with its own "self" and reform its mind as a result of that action.

What I am still arguing is many human can't do that either. Such thing, in my experience, is actually not that common in the general populace. And while you can say it is there, just "unexercised", that would be functionally identical to it not existing and you can't absolutely prove that "it is still there" in all human.

>In engineering, I hope not

Perhaps in your particular type of engineering. In civil engineering, material degradation is undesirable and normal. In chemical engineering, side reactions are undesirable and normal. In biomedical engineering, well there are too many to list, from undesirable epigenetic changes to patients' unhealthy lifestyles. Things can definitely be undesirable but normal.