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Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by MavisBacon on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:21PM (#35382093)
While this is in theory true, and as much as the literature of AA attempts to separate itself from Christianity or any other religion, the reality is that the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous were derived from the 4 steps of the Oxford Group- an Evangelical Christian organization. The word god is constantly thrown around in meetings and throughout the literature and, make no mistake, that is a Christian god they are talking about. Christian prayers are fairly common in meetings as well, especially the Lord’s Prayer- and 12-step meetings are typically held in churches.
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by toomanyrichies on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:04AM (#35385187)
> the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous were derived from the 4 steps of the Oxford Group

This is true. It's also true that AA broke off from the Oxford Group ("kicked out", according to Lois W, the wife of founder Bill W) for de-emphasizing religion in their approach. Oxford Group members actually crashed the first AA meeting in Cleveland, and attempted to break it up because they judged it to be too agnostic. Apparently it was pretty dramatic- see "AA Started In Riots" by Roger C. for more. [1]

> The word god is constantly thrown around in meetings and throughout the literature and, make no mistake, that is a Christian god they are talking about.

It sounds like I have a different experience from you. The meetings I went to were quite secular. I'm vehemently agnostic, and I never once felt like the people there were proselytizing to me. If they had, I would have left real quickly and not gone back.

That could be a result of me living in big cities (SF, LA, NYC, Shanghai, etc.) during my sobriety, making it easier to find secular meetings that were run by people like me. Someone living in small-town America might have a different experience from mine. Hopefully with the advent of Zoom meetings, it's now less of an issue for someone in a small town to find a meeting that works for them, but I can't speak to that since I left the program before Zoom became a thing.

Each meeting is meant to be independent from the others, and each has its own bent. You'll find meetings for Christians but also meetings for atheists, just like you'll find mens' meetings, womens' meetings, young peoples' meetings, etc.

> 12-step meetings are typically held in churches.

I've been to meetings in church basements and Sunday school rooms, but I've also been to meetings at American Legion halls, recreation fields, City Halls, even the basement of a Dunkin Donuts. Consider the possibility that holding a meeting in a church is at least partly a function of cost. Meetings are run on donations from attendees- that's literally their only revenue source, or is supposed to be according to AA's rules. Giving a donation might be hard for someone who has just hit rock bottom, and it can be expensive to rent a clubhouse purely for the sake of meetings. Churches might be more likely to cut AA groups a break on the rent.

There are plenty of secular AA meetings out there. I don't want to be accused of promotion by either HN or AA, so I won't link to them, but they're pretty easy to Google. Secularism is actually part of their "12 Traditions"- #10 (the long form) says:

"No A.A. group or member should ever, in such a way as to implicate A.A., express any opinion on outside controversial issues - particularly those of politics, alcohol reform, or sectarian religion. The Alcoholics Anonymous groups oppose no one. Concerning such matters they can express no views whatever." [2]

1. https://aaagnostica.org/2013/12/08/aa-started-in-riots

2. https://www.aa.org/the-twelve-traditions

Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by MavisBacon on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:27AM (#35386038)
My background is I used to run a national harm reduction org and I’ve also spent countless nights and mornings in AA and NA meetings in cities and towns throughout the country- places like Baltimore, Miami/Dade County, Tucson, Santa Ana, Newport Beach and nearby suburbs of all these places

That’s great you were able to access secular meetings in SF/LA/NYC, but the reality for most Americans is that those meetings you attended might as well not exist, they are elusive, infrequent, and make up a tiny percentage of the total meetings online or otherwise

Having said all that. and while we are nitpicking- it’s probably worth mentioning that “secular” meetings still have 12 steps and still involve handing your will and life over to a higher power of some more palatable flavor (such as “the program”)- so definitionally we are still talking about faith-based treatment. This will never work out well for atheists and that’s the point me and others are making.