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Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by marvin on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @01:46PM (#35345008)
The question you should ask, as a fellow European, is whether reducing influence from the US government, a stable but somewhat flawed democracy, is worth the price of losing access to US social media. Think in geopolitical terms, with all this entails of long-term divergence in cultural values, trade and other forms of economic compatibility.

And whether this judgement is significantly different from whether reducing influence from the CCP, an obviously totalitarian government that does not balk at overtly undermining of democratic values within your own borders, is worth losing access to TikTok.

Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by luispauloml on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @02:13PM (#35345407)
I am confused by your questions, honestly. Maybe my English skills are lacking, but could you clarify?

Here:

- Is it worth losing access to US social media to reduce the influence of the US government?

- Is it worth losing access to TikTok to reduce the influence of the CCP?

Are these the questions your are asking? I really want to understand your comment because I think the same as the parent commenter. And even though I don't understand what you're try saying, it seems like they are important questions I should ask myself.

Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by fknorangesite on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @05:25PM (#35348123)
Yes, that is what they are asking.
Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by Initial_BP on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @12:51AM (#35352769)
I think the previous commenter was implying that one may be worse than the other and trying to get you to reevaluate the idea that you see banning tiktok to be the same as banning US social media because of the differences between the Chinese government and the US government.
Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by marvin on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @02:38AM (#35353467)
Yes. Banning US social media will in my estimation be a net loss for Europe, whereas banning TikTok would be a net win.

Subtle US interference and soft power, unpalatable though it may be, is not a real problem for European quality of life even in isolation, certainly not compared to the benefits of cultural exhcange & compatibility, and the following long-term trade and geopolitical cooperation with the US.

Whereas interference and soft power from the CCP deliberately undermines multiple core values of our society. It’s pretty damn obvious.

I guess to which degree Europe & the EU actually follows democratic values is a separate and very worthwhile discussion; maybe it’s closely related. Certainly looks like that from where I sit, at the northernmost border of the economic block.

Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by rpgbr on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @02:32PM (#35345725)
I’d very much appreciate a reduced US influence and social apps in my country.
Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by mikrotikker on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @06:51PM (#35349213)
I'd rather the US than CCP because my culture, political system and system of law more closely matches that of the USA.

The CCP seeks to undermine these systems to favour totalitarianism.

Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by rpgbr on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @07:45PM (#35349777)
Yeah, because US were always a champion in democracy cries in Latin America’s multiple 20th century dictatorships backed by the US
Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by mikrotikker on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:16AM (#35385295)
Yes I am aware of that. I have read confessions of an economic hitman many times, great book.

Still it has not much of an effect on the here and now. I'd still rather not be ruled by a communist totalitarian dictatorship.

Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by hyuuu on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @03:30PM (#35346532)
imo, our data is getting harvested regardless, and if we were to have a say, I'd choose whichever country that does not have a tendency towards violence and let's be honest, between the options on the table, which one has a longer track record of waging wars? I don't want that country.
Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by mikrotikker on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @06:53PM (#35349229)
I'd rather the country that spent 800,000 lives ending slavery than the one that executed tens of millions in the great leap forward for petty and ideological reasons.
Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by MiguelX413 on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @04:16PM (#35347192)
Social media provides no value.
Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by Jochim on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @05:17PM (#35348011)
In geopolitical terms, the US has spent the last decade antagonising China for internal political gain. Resulting in the present situation where they've chosen not to align with the west on Russian sanctions. Not to say that China is entirely free from blame either.

As a European, I'm more likely to be extradited and tortured by the US than the CCP. I'm sure much of the world hasn't forgotten their penchant for assassinations, support for dictators, and destabilisation of democratically elected governments. Let's not forget the decades long mess that was the Iraq war.

Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by thrway2349 on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @07:02PM (#35349310)
Given China's cozying up to Russia, I'd think harder about which countries are really on your side when push comes to shove.

As a European you're effectively only protected from Russian aggression (or re-invasion, depending on which country you're in) because of NATO, which is substantially led by the US. Germany, Poland, the Baltic states, etc. would be completely up shit creek right now if it wasn't for US military involvement in NATO and arms in Ukraine. It's why you see Finland etc. racing to join after years of non-alignment.

Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by Jochim on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @05:25AM (#35354652)
> Given China's cozying up to Russia, I'd think harder about which countries are really on your side when push comes to shove.

Why wouldn't China cosy up to Russia? The US has spent much of the last decade tearing apart most of the progress they made over the last five. The Trump administration took an overtly hostile stance to relations.

> As a European you're effectively only protected from Russian aggression (or re-invasion, depending on which country you're in) because of NATO, which is substantially led by the US. Germany, Poland, the Baltic states, etc. would be completely up shit creek right now if it wasn't for US military involvement in NATO and arms in Ukraine. It's why you see Finland etc. racing to join after years of non-alignment.

Russia can barely deal with Ukraine's largely irregular army. They'd get wiped trying to invade any of the EU states.

Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by mikrotikker on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @06:50PM (#35349187)
Chinese expats are frequently "extradited" to face torture via the Chinese police stations set up in foreign countries around the would.
Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by Jochim on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @04:59AM (#35354438)
Has there been some kind of collective amnesia regarding Guantanamo bay or the torture that took place in Iraq and Afghanistan? Did America's campaign of drone strikes simply not occur?

In less recent memory we might recall the US "protecting democracy" by providing direct financial, training, operational training, and the occasional assassination to military coups/dictators in Latin America[0].

Allies of the US certainly have it a lot easier but it doesn't mean their leaders communications won't be monitored [1].

China's behaviour is certainly objectionable but as someone that lives in neither country the US has a much more worrying history of foreign interference.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor

[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24690055

Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by mikrotikker on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:17AM (#35385300)
Just because one thing is bad doesnt mean another thing is suddenly rendered not bad. Come on.
Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @06:52PM (#35349221)
Not just Chinese expats, you could totally switch your citizenship to Swedish and still get abducted by the Chinese government in Thailand.
Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by Jochim on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @06:17AM (#35355043)
Glass houses:

> The administration of President George W. Bush abducted hundreds of "illegal combatants" for U.S. detention, and transported detainees to U.S.-controlled sites as part of an extensive interrogation program that included torture.

> Extraordinary rendition continued under the Obama administration, with targets being interrogated and subsequently taken to the U.S. for trial.

> A June 2006 report estimated that one hundred people had been kidnapped by the CIA on European Union soil

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition

Re:The TikTok ban is a betrayal of the open internet by mikrotikker on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:18AM (#35385319)
Yes that is also bad. You want a cookie?