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Re:Apple Music Classical by easyThrowaway on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @06:43AM (#35338578)
Why would anyone want to listen to it then? what would be the point? The acoustic equivalent of a screensaver?
Re:Apple Music Classical by Aidevah on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @07:25AM (#35338924)
>Why would anyone want to listen to it then? what would be the point? The acoustic equivalent of a screensaver?

Isn't that exactly how music is consumed nowadays by most people? They put something when driving, cooking, doing homework, etc. It's used mainly for mood/focus and they're not exactly paying close attention to it the same way one would to a audiobook of, say, an abstract algebra textbook. Especially considering how cheap and easy it is to steam music nowadays. I suspect focused, attentive listening only makes up a small minority of the total streams.

Re:Apple Music Classical by MavisBacon on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @08:35AM (#35339851)
>I suspect focused, attentive listening only makes up a small minority of the total streams

The inverse is likely true with the classical audience. Just like with jazz, although there will be a small portion of users seeking “vibey jazz” sort of playlists to use in the background while working, the majority of jazz fans consume jazz as albums and still concerned with things like personnel and liner notes, perhaps even who mastered this recording. Classical fans are similar except I would say even more picky IME (worked in a jazz and classical CD store/venue for a number of years)

Re:Apple Music Classical by caddemon on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @08:49AM (#35340072)
I wouldn't call myself a classical music fan, but if we're looking at Spotify stream numbers I wouldn't be surprised if a big chunk of classical is background noise too. Whenever I'm trying to get work done in a noisy environment I go for classical playlists - unless I'm doing something mindless like cleaning I find it very hard to focus with most music. Might just be that lyrics (especially in English) distract me, but classical is an easy go to for studying time IMO.
Re:Apple Music Classical by microtherion on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @08:59AM (#35340247)
It might be useful, in both cases, to distinguish "fans" and "consumers" of those styles. Yes, the people who most consciously identify as fans of the styles are picky, but I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of classical play counts by volume are consumed for muzakish purposes. Mozart for babies, Vivaldi for malls, etc.

The same may be true for Jazz, though in that genre there may be a bit more of a separation between jazzy background mood music and jazz as consumed by fans. There are some overlaps ("The Girl from Ipanema", "Take Five", etc), but they may not be quite as central to the canon as their classical counterparts.

Re:Apple Music Classical by MavisBacon on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @09:26AM (#35340683)
these are fair points, I suppose I was more addressing this with the "classical fan" user in mind given the context of the discussion, idea of a platform that serves these users. It definitely is true though that a huge portion of music listeners in general would rather throw a random playlist on than select an album and it would be interesting to somehow see how many classical listeners on say Spotify are doing so through playlists vs selected albums.
Re:Apple Music Classical by rejectfinite on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @10:28AM (#35341695)
There is 45k streaming the lofi girl on youtube now. Maybe not jazz but simmilar typ, also mostly background music.
Re:Apple Music Classical by bowsamic on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @09:00AM (#35340269)
> I suspect focused, attentive listening only makes up a small minority of the total streams.

You haven't justified your assertion of the dichotomy between pure blind consumption and active, focussed listening. You must actually argue that the negation of one implies the other. Your comment is totally meaningless as it stands

Re:Apple Music Classical by bowsamic on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @07:05AM (#35338756)
Many people are so starved of any kind of creative education that they see art in purely a utilitarian point of view. It doesn't matter to them if a human made it, the outcome is the same. To them, yeah pretty much all art is like a screensaver
Re:Apple Music Classical by BurningFrog on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @07:19AM (#35338866)
If utilitarian means "I enjoy listening to it", I proudly am one.
Re:Apple Music Classical by bowsamic on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @08:55AM (#35340199)
Well naturally if your relation to art is that shallow then to you it is a genuine risk that it might be replaced by an AI version.
Re:Apple Music Classical by BurningFrog on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @10:24AM (#35341605)
I don't think we'll end up agreeing, but I'm curious what "deeper" ways to enjoy music than listening to it you favor?
Re:Apple Music Classical by bowsamic on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @11:19AM (#35342508)
Relating to it as a creative process. Connecting directly with the artist, mind to mind, through the art. Being liberated from my current perspective. Story telling. Revolutionary mental states. New synergistic paradigms. All the actual reasons why people have been making art for many 1000s of years.

Or, just keep your pacifier, baby ;)

Re:Apple Music Classical by BurningFrog on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @12:01PM (#35343204)
Thanks.

I've chosen to think of art in terms of products I consume, and less as admiration of artists, though of course I do some of the latter too.

Re:Apple Music Classical by bowsamic on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @12:16PM (#35343451)
You should not admire artists, but I'm sad for you that art is just a product for you, and not a source of your own expression. Some people naturally gravitate to a subservient, non-creative position.
Re:Apple Music Classical by csw-001 on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @07:51AM (#35339258)
> Why would anyone want to listen to it then? what would be the point? The acoustic equivalent of a screensaver?

I would think they would want to listen to it for the same reason they listen to human generated music.

Is your thought here that AI generated art is not art? Is it the nature of the creator that determines the listeners enjoyment? If the music generated by a computer is indistinguishable from human made music, how can this be possible? Moreover, at what point would the computer generation be sufficient to shift it from art to “screensaver”? Would it be one simulated member of an otherwise human orchestra? Would it take 50%. If you can’t draw a line, doesn’t that further indicate it’s irrelevant?

Re:Apple Music Classical by easyThrowaway on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @08:43AM (#35339992)
It's way less complicated than that. Music and art in general belong to the social context that produced them. A lot of our appreciation doesn't really come from the technical prowess of the artist or the music theory behind that, but from the cultural hooks we can find in it.

If you want a quick example of what I'm saying, look online for Music for Installations by Brian Eno. It's a "almost-generative-but-not-really" music album made for audiovisual installations. It's... kinda nice but it's 6 hours long and literally gets boring after less than 30 minutes.

I can't imagine listening to something even more abstracted from a human composer for more than 20 minutes. I mean, I'm pretty sure you can generate something even quite pleasant with AIs. Most people will just listen for 15 min, say "uh, cool", and go back to regular music.

Re:Apple Music Classical by bowsamic on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @08:58AM (#35340242)
Brian Eno was 100% right about ambient music, but he was just wrong about what form it would take. Basically, his music is so unintrusive to the point of being sleep-inducing for many, thus at least a little more intensity is needed. What really became the ambient music was 24/7 lofi hiphop streams. That kind of music is still very abstracted from a human composer, it just happens to have slightly different sonic qualities and sociocultural context than Eno, so it appeals to a wider audience.
Re:Apple Music Classical by TillE on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @07:35PM (#35349664)
Totally agree with this, but I think it's very likely we'll see AI-written pop hits. They've basically been churned out factory style for years anyway.

And if that does happen, expect a far more exciting backlash movement, like alternative rock in the 90s was to garbage excesses of the 80s.

Re:Apple Music Classical by oriolid on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @09:26AM (#35340685)
> The acoustic equivalent of a screensaver?

It already exists, and is known as elevator music or muzak. I can certainly see the value in generating endless copyright-free background music, because so many human effort has been put into composing it already.

Re:Apple Music Classical by easyThrowaway on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @10:22AM (#35341591)
Sure, but the OP point was specifically about Classic Music, not incidental soundscapes.
Re:Apple Music Classical by oriolid on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @10:37AM (#35341847)
I know, I wasn't the one who brought up the "acoustic equivalent of a screensaver".
Re:Apple Music Classical by easyThrowaway on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @11:10AM (#35342328)
Alright, but why would I actually spend time to actively listen to it? Op was specifically talking about Classic music being replaced by AI in listening events, not about staying on hold on a phone calls or waiting on a parking spot.
Re:Apple Music Classical by oriolid on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @02:13PM (#35345397)
You wouldn't actively listening, and that's why generated muzak would be okay. "The acoustic equivalent of a screensaver", as someone in the thread called it. The idea that classical performances would be replace human composers in concert context is quite ridiculous. Maybe as a novelty, once, but that's all.
Re:Apple Music Classical by echelon on Tuesday March 28, 2023 @10:28PM (#35351449)
> Why would anyone want to listen to it then? what would be the point? The acoustic equivalent of a screensaver?

The same reason anyone does anything. Because they like it.