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Re:Arduino Uno R4 by dragontamer on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:10PM (#35316065)
The microcontroller is under 20mA easily, and under 10mA typical use.

https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/mah/renesas-ra4m1-gro...

I'm a bit lothe to admit it, but for beginners... anything under 50mA probably doesn't matter. So that includes Teensy Boards, RP2040, Arduino Uno, this new Arduino, etc. etc. A typical LED draws 20mA for example, while WiFi will draw 100mA or more. Ethernet also draws 100mA+.

So its very difficult for a beginner to "care" about anything below 50mA. Its just not something worth caring about, because everything else in your circuit uses so much more power.

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> With DIY stuff especially because I build battery-powered things here and there, and recharging once a year instead of once a month is a massive reduction in nuisance for stuff around the house. I dream of low power compute where I can consistently get away with solar or kinetic energy harvesting to reduce operational maintenance to 0!

Just search on UltraLowPower (ULP) microcontrollers, such as the STM32L5 (or the next version: STM32U5, whenever that comes out). Low-power microcontrollers are measured in "microamps per MHz".

https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32...

That's 16uA / MHz active on the STM32U5. Though it fails at the lower end of things (~1mA or ~2mA is just the cost of the clock itself, so you can't drop below that in active mode. Sleep modes turn off the clock of course and allow the ~100nA to 500nA sleep modes on these ULP chips though).

STM32U5 isn't alone btw. There's plenty of competitors for this ultra-low power field.

Re:Arduino Uno R4 by sho_hn on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:20PM (#35316197)
I know all of this of course (but nevertheless thanks for spreading useful information) :-)

What I'm saying is that I would really like this type of announcement to not take shape of absolute performance increase but at least include, if not focus, on performance-per-watt. I honestly don't agree with the "beginners won't care" - battery life is not a difficult concept and battery-powered projects are super common.

And I think it is on Arduino to do this, since the value they provide as a middle-man is to package this BOM up as a product and explain it and their product design choices.

As a sibling points out power efficiency can also vary with other component choices on the breakout board, e.g. the power delivery or included BMS. This is also something Arduino could optimize for and market as they productize. The MCU datasheet isn't everything.

Re:Arduino Uno R4 by twawaaay on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:30PM (#35316313)
20mA is an equivalent of a typical LED. And if that is too much for you to power a microcontroller you do what you do with a normal LED -- you do not power it all the time and instead you use it when it is needed and put to sleep when it is not.

So I fully agree with the parent comment that for an amateur once you got to this point, further improvements on power efficiency here is pretty much inconsequential. It is not like you are going to be building a watch or a sensor that will have to work for years on a single AAA.

A 20mA microcontroller will be sufficient for pretty much any project an amateur can think of, power usage wise.

Re:Arduino Uno R4 by sho_hn on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:42PM (#35316482)
"Putting it to sleep" is where a lot of details matter. Different MCUs don't have parity on what sleep states and options they offer and what they mean in practice. Often there are complex tables where certain wakeup schemes are only available in certain sleep states, and to extract minimum idle draw you need to know what you're doing.

The Arduino framework currently offers only minimal abstraction over this. If you use Arduino on an esp32, you have to reach into ESP-IDF API to dial in the details, e.g. set up ext1 wakeup and disable the RTC memory explicitly if you don't need it. Betting this is the same here at launch.

Arduino here is introducing two versions of the same product with widely different BOMs and not addressing this matter at all.

I think it'd be a great enhancement of their productization effort if they started explaining power envelope, showing improvements over time, standardized an API (derived from actual use cases) etc. This would add value over the raw chips and datasheets for their audience of beginners looking for ease of use. Without it this is just throwing some random new breakout boards with the same layouts over the fence - a very crowded market - and banking on ecosystem effects without evolving the ecosystem and tackling new aspects.

Re:Arduino Uno R4 by twawaaay on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:47PM (#35316539)
As an amateur EE I am looking at Arduino as an entry-level solution for people who want to learn a bit about electronics and have fun getting some results.

Arduino is supposed to be simple and it is a feature, not a bug.

If they start making it more and more complicated, it will just stop being simple and it will stop being what makes it so usable to complete noobs.

There is no shortage of options if you somehow find that Arduino is not powerful enough to you.

Re:Arduino Uno R4 by sho_hn on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:50PM (#35316564)
Well that's sorta the point - they're making it more complicated here (same name, two completely different BOMs with different behavior). An improvement would be to make power management and low-power projects beginner-friendly (e.g. by expanding the API framework) and a compelling announcement would be showing that off. For me it's still a curious omission.
Re:Arduino Uno R4 by twawaaay on Sunday March 26, 2023 @01:12PM (#35316859)
Nah, two different BOMs isn't making it more complicated. In the end you hold a board in your hand and have to figure out how to get from it to what you want.

Or think in a different way: A board you have in your hand does not suddenly become more complicated because the company comes up with another board with different BOM. Maybe choosing the board becomes a bit more complicated, maybe choosing any addons for the boards becomes a bit more complicated (as you have to navigate compatibility), but using the board -- I don't think so.

Re:Arduino Uno R4 by qbasic_forever on Sunday March 26, 2023 @12:46PM (#35316534)
The LEDs on these little development boards are typically big sources of current draw too. Like the main CPU can go into deep sleep sipping microamps of power, but the power and other LEDs sit there with a resistor pulling tens of milliamps all the time.