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Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by jdiez17 on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:34AM (#35290441)
So... same business model as credit cards?
Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by otikik on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:41AM (#35290560)
Don’t they work under very different regulatory frameworks though? (As in: banks have some regulation)
Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by thwayunion on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:39AM (#35290529)
Huge caveat is that some BNPL services don't require credit checks.
Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by comte7092 on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:37AM (#35290490)
Credit cards also make substantial money on transaction fees, but yes you are correct.
Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by dwater on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:43AM (#35290596)
Different customer base. These loans are generally more expensive and sold to people who can't qualify for credit cards. So yes, same business model but with the "Predatory" knob turned up.
Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by Jochim on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:43AM (#35290600)
AFAIK the interest rates on credit cards are nowhere near that of even regulated payday loans. The lack of interest on most cards if you repay in full each month can also make them a useful buffer if you have short term liquidity problems, ironically the problem that payday loan companies claim to solve.

Payday loan companies as they operate now belong in the class of companies that should simply be destroyed. Put betting shops in there as well.

Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by time_to_smile on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:48AM (#35290688)
If BNPL was the same as credit cards, then why not just use credit cards?

BNPL often ignores credit check or specifically targets groups that credit cards would deem too risky.

For me this doubles the problem with the BNPL space: not only are the predatory, but I have serious concerns about their own risk management.

I knew of a start up that was experimenting with running their own BNPL service with zero credit checks. The users that were being targeted had a 30+% default rate (because other users had credit cards) but the upper bound of interest that could be charged was around 25%... the company seriously didn't understand why they weren't able to make profit on this product. But hey, revenue did grow which is all VCs cared about so it worked for them.

Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by paxys on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:50AM (#35290743)
BNPL targets people who wouldn't otherwise qualify for a credit card or personal loan.

Here's a simple test – if everyone paid their balances on time and in full, credit card companies would still survive. BNPL would not.

Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by crazygringo on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:59AM (#35290921)
> if everyone paid their balances in full and on time, credit card companies would still survive.

That goes against my understanding. Do you have a source for that?

I'm pretty sure credit cards make their money off of interest. It's not from the interchange fees from people who pay their balance each month, as those often go straight back to consumers through rewards programs, and just administration costs generally. The card I use most has no annual fee but 2% cash back on everything.

Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by scottLobster on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:05PM (#35291044)
The ratio depends on the credit card issuer, but often times the rewards are just a fraction of the fees charged.

American Express in particular makes more of their money from transaction fees and membership fees than interest. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets/012715/how-ame...

Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by crazygringo on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:08PM (#35292162)
Yes, but American Express is very much an outlier and always has been. It's also why many shops don't accept Amex, because it charges higher transaction fees.
Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by nunez on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:05PM (#35298866)
AMEX allows you to have a rotating credit line now on those cards.
Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by soco on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:10PM (#35291155)
Cashback is not really a thing around me (Switzerland) and other rewards are just practical jokes - like overpriced black socks subscriptions offered slightly less overpriced. Yet credit cards thrive.
Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by crazygringo on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:06PM (#35292122)
Yes but interchange fees are far lower in Europe.

In the US they're around 2%. In Europe they're more like 0.3%, which is why cashback/rewards aren't a thing.

My point is that interchange fees aren't where credit cards make money, it's on the interest of people who don't pay in full.

Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by medvezhenok on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:31PM (#35292574)
Some cards like AMEX Gold/Platinum don't allow you to carry a balance at all, and make most of their money via interchange fees.

There is a spread between rewards provided and actual fees (fees are closer to 2.5-4%, rewards usually top out around ~2%)

Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by finfrastrcuture on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:10PM (#35292190)
I'm by no means a BNPL advocate, but this isn't true. BNPL providers have proliferated because they offer the merchant a new avenue to win new businesses (aka get consumers who wouldn't buy to buy) and in exchange receive a heft % commission of the purchase, much higher than card interchange. They also are fighting to reposition themselves as marketplaces in their own right, and earn associated merchant marketing fees, rather than be just a button a check out.

According to the BNPL industry, fees and interest make up a small portion of their overall revenues. Whether that's wholly accurate is another story.

In sum, they would indeed exist. Its more a question of how large and profitable they would be.

Check out Klarna's financial reporting to get a sense of this: https://www.klarna.com/international/press/klarna-reports-fo...

Re:More Americans are using ‘buy now, pay later’ services to... by thwayunion on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:19PM (#35294878)
> According to the BNPL industry, fees and interest make up a small portion of their overall revenues. Whether that's wholly accurate is another story.

It may also be irrelevant; I'm more interested in their forward-looking forecasts than their current revenue sources.