News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The ethics of brain boosting by Tichy on Sunday January 29, 2012 @05:25PM (#3526471)
"The idea of a simple, cheap and widely available device that could boost brain function sounds too good to be true."

Like books, for example? Or computers (not that cheap, but widely available).

I am not holding my breath on that device... My usual line of thinking: if it is so easy to enhance brain functions, why hasn't nature done so herself? (Another one where that applies is the super memory mice).

Re:The ethics of brain boosting by commieneko on Sunday January 29, 2012 @06:01PM (#3526587)
Nature has widely enhanced brain functions. There is variation in intelligence. But since traits are selected for against usefulness and not toward an abstract goal or destination you don't see much variation above or beyond that needed to promote the trait. Even today most people do not need much more abstract reasoning power than the median to survive and reproduce. (By "today" I mean within the last 10,000 years or so.)

But in normal healthy people we see enough variation in abstract reasoning to have a profound effect on their performance in our brand spanking new technological environment of the last couple of thousand years; less than an eyeblink in evolutionary terms. And not just in competitive terms, but in absolute ability. A lot of that advancement can be simply be attributed to better nutrition and better mental and language models. I have little trouble believing that fiddling and tuning up the brain's electrical environment might might have some comparatively striking effects. (I can also see it possible to do great damage as well)

Re:The ethics of brain boosting by Jach on Sunday January 29, 2012 @06:41PM (#3526704)
Nature isn't very smart and is very slow. For instance, a mutation that gives 10% fitness advantage (which is pretty much unheard of as far as I know) would only rise to fixation 20% of the time. And in humanity it would take 454 generations to fixate in the population. Since most mutations don't carry such large advantages by themselves, you have to wait for dependent mutations to take place. A second mutation might indeed give 10% advantage but only in the presence of some prior mutation having already fixated, which may itself only give 0.1% advantage.

There are a lot of low-hanging fruits nature has missed because nature only cares about how many copies of genes there are, it doesn't care about human goals. Evolution is a poor optimizer for what it does, it has no optimization for what we want done.

Re:The ethics of brain boosting by Tichy on Sunday January 29, 2012 @06:59PM (#3526756)
Slight correction: nature doesn't care about the number of copies of a gene. All that matters is existence/survival.

I have to verify your other numbers sometime, because I am pretty sure I have heard of cases where mutations took hold faster (lactose tolerance perhaps?)

Re:The ethics of brain boosting by JumpCrisscross on Sunday January 29, 2012 @05:44PM (#3526528)
It's expensive (calorically). As it is that little engine sunk in a bone casing behind your eyes consumes calories like a ravaged soul.
Re:The ethics of brain boosting by waqf on Sunday January 29, 2012 @05:57PM (#3526570)
> if it is so easy to enhance brain functions, why hasn't nature done so herself?

A good question to raise, but it has a lot of plausible answers. For example, maybe having better cognitive ability causes people to spend more time doing science and less time procreating/looking after their offspring.

Re:The ethics of brain boosting by merkat on Sunday January 29, 2012 @05:53PM (#3526559)
Maybe the nature is enhancing our brains (in evolutionary terms), but there might be devices or techniques to accelerate this process.
Re:The ethics of brain boosting by yummyfajitas on Sunday January 29, 2012 @09:26PM (#3527210)
...if it is so easy to enhance brain functions, why hasn't nature done so herself?

If nature is a woman (rather than a collection of stochastic processes), then she is a strong argument against letting women into the same building as a computer.

Most biological organisms are designed incredibly badly. The body is full of spaghetti code, duplicate functionality, dead code that still causes bugs, and systems that evolved from a completely different purpose and didn't get the full rewrite they needed.

The nature methodology makes waterfall look like a perfect process:

1) Make a random change.

2) If conversions go up, commit. Otherwise revert.

Re:The ethics of brain boosting by Flenser on Monday January 30, 2012 @09:34AM (#3528926)
If nature is a woman (rather than a collection of stochastic processes), then she is a strong argument against letting women into the same building as a computer.

This along with the following paragraph come across as somewhat misogynistic. I'm sure you didn't mean it to. Saying "person" instead of "women" would have avoided that.

I liked your description of nature's methodology as a development process.

Re:The ethics of brain boosting by yummyfajitas on Monday January 30, 2012 @10:33AM (#3529130)
The meat of my post was a factual counterpoint to Tichy's, and it amused me to make a stylistic counterpoint as well (namely mocking his Gaia-worshipping tone, which anthropomorphizes a random process).

So yes, I did mean to make it sound somewhat mysogynistic.

Re:The ethics of brain boosting by hexagonc on Monday January 30, 2012 @11:01AM (#3529245)
Most biological organisms are designed incredibly badly. The body is full of spaghetti code, duplicate functionality, dead code that still causes bugs, and systems that evolved from a completely different purpose and didn't get the full rewrite they needed.

You know, I hear tech people saying stuff like this all the time but the question I would ask is: designed badly compared to what? I mean, if you're comparing to software code made by humans (is there any other kind?) then I think biological systems work pretty damn well. The type of systems that humans write code for are utterly trivial compared to what biology has to deal with -- and we STILL have all the anti-patterns and problems you mentioned with respect to biology. Until human beings can write code of comparable complexity to life that lasts millions of years (forget about billions) I think you should show the woman some respect. :-)

Re:The ethics of brain boosting by yummyfajitas on Monday January 30, 2012 @11:21AM (#3529326)
You know, I hear tech people saying stuff like this all the time but the question I would ask is: designed badly compared to what?

Compared to what it would look like if a human designed it. I took a course in math biology, and learned how a few of these subsystems work. A particular gene regulatory network I studied (can't recall the details, it was >5 years ago) looked like the following:

    B, C = (False, False)
    A = get_input()
    if A:
        B = True
    if B:
        C = True
    if C:
        do_something_interesting()
There were literally 2 pointless intermediary steps which evolution was pretty much incapable of removing. It was also unnecessary - in some different type of bacteria, the network fit the obvious pattern (I'd give a citation, but my math bio textbook is in a storage compartment halfway around the world from me):

    A = get_input()
    if A:
        do_something_interesting()
You see nonsense like this all over biology.

The debate over intelligent design is clearly over. If you want to argue for creationism, you need to argue that god is a drooling retard who starts a project, forgets what he is doing, and uses the pieces to finish a completely different task.

Re:The ethics of brain boosting by Tichy on Monday January 30, 2012 @01:00PM (#3529827)
Not saying there isn't waste in nature, but in your A,B,C example, at least there are three more things were nature could break something if necessary. It can not only change the input to A, it can also change if A: B = true to if A: B = false, likewise for if B: C = true.

Just saying, that kind of redundancy might be an advantage for evolution, smoothing it's path.