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Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by iainctduncan on Thursday March 16, 2023 @10:08PM (#35191981)
Many commenters seem to be under the impression that "because I made something, it is copyrightable". That's not how it works. What is protected under copyright is determined by long processes of lobbying, legislation, lawsuits, and court cases. For example: a melody is copyrightable, a chord progression is not, even when the chord progression is so unique as to be the primary intellectual asset of a piece. (Look up contrafacts from the bebop era!) Another example, the rules around the copyright of a sound recording are very different from those of the intellectual property of a song.

Only specific things are copyrightable. There is nothing unusual (from a legal sense) in the government and others taking a stance on which things those should be and under what circumstances. You have no a priori right to copyright something because you fucked around with a prompt for a long time.

I don't see how they could go with a different stance given that all that is required to copyright a written work is to write it and declare it copyright (IFF it is copyrightable, that is). This will fall apart it if it's possible for a company to have AI spew out eleventy-billion variation of training input and declare them all copyright.

Don't forget that in the early 90's we went through an era of records being yanked off the shelf at great cost to labels when the sampling laws finally settled. (Anyone else remember the appearance, disappearance, and reappearance of Us3's "Hand on the Torch"? fond memories!)

Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by Bjartr on Thursday March 16, 2023 @10:59PM (#35192425)
> all that is required to copyright a written work is to write it and declare it copyright

You don't even need to declare it. Declaring it only affects things like whether infringement is "willful" or not when deciding penalties. If you create a (US) copyrightable work, you retain the copyright by default. For it to not be under copyright you have to explicitly place it in the public domain.

Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by iainctduncan on Friday March 17, 2023 @12:43AM (#35193225)
I could be wrong, but I think I remembered reading that in music at least, you have to do something with it (like capture it on paper or recording). I seem to remember reading this came about to prevent people from being able to say something was copyright because they maintained they had written something say 10 years ago but just not gotten around to recording it - and then wanted to sue. But this is vague memories from reading about the bizarre and convoluted world of music publishing....
Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by dublinben on Friday March 17, 2023 @01:30AM (#35193523)
Correct. The law requires it to be “fixed in any tangible medium.” Such as transcribing onto paper, recording onto record, exposed onto film, etc. Merely thinking, saying, playing, singing, dancing, etc a newly created concept is too ephemeral to be a recognizable act of authorship.
Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by wongarsu on Friday March 17, 2023 @08:46AM (#35196387)
Well, almost any proof that you danced that concept would be fixing it to a tangible medium. That rule mostly just rules out heresay, eyewitness accounts, and other such methods of "proving" that you created something
Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by auggierose on Friday March 17, 2023 @06:43AM (#35195321)
Putting it on a website is enough.
Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by mikehollinger on Thursday March 16, 2023 @11:09PM (#35192492)
The issue to me here is that code is a literary work. Literary works are copywritable. Except that AI generated works without human authorship aren’t per this.

Interestingly this came up when copilot was announced and one comment or another was “this will be an interesting bit of case law.”

Well now we have to see who wants to go first and establish precedent for the next half-century. :-)

Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by statop on Thursday March 16, 2023 @11:50PM (#35192817)
It isn't AI, it's a glorified Xerox machine.
Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by iainctduncan on Friday March 17, 2023 @12:48AM (#35193265)
A bit more like a sampler than a xerox machine... but sampling laws got clarified eventually too!
Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by visarga on Friday March 17, 2023 @01:16AM (#35193428)
That form of AI has already been invented long ago, it's called simply Copy & Paste.

GPT combines prompt, context and knowledge, it selects and adapts code. It even does problem solving: above average human rating on easy problems and 20% over humans on medium level problems. When did the xerox or parrot for that matter do that?

Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by statop on Friday March 17, 2023 @02:06AM (#35193740)
If you think copy and paste is artificial intelligence then there probably isn't much of a discussion to be had here.

Yes, very smart and talented people have released ground breaking and amazing tools leveraging massively trained ML models. The model is not problem solving or intelligent in any sense of the word (take it from oai: https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt)

"ChatGPT sometimes writes plausible-sounding but incorrect or nonsensical answers..."

To be back on topic, I don't think some sweaty dude from the internet should be issued a copyright for typing "Minnie Mouse wearing a pikachu t-shirt!" into DALL-E and submitting the resulting image.

At the same time, I read a post like this one: https://andys.page/posts/how-to-draw and I have really no objection to copyright being assigned. I think the difference is the human authorship, and I think the Copyright Office has made a pretty good first swag.

Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by dragonwriter on Thursday March 16, 2023 @11:54PM (#35192859)
> The issue to me here is that code is a literary work.

Code (or anything else) is not a “work” without the required element of human creative input.

Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by PeterisP on Friday March 17, 2023 @05:27AM (#35194915)
If I look at how the law is written, I get an impression that technically you might even say that copyright law doesn't exclude non-human authored works - they fit the clause of types of protected work, a machine might be considered an author, etc, HOWEVER, when all that is said and done, a machine can't have any rights or standing in court; i.e. even if someone would assert that a machine is the author of some work and has an exclusive right to reproduce it, then that right is unenforceable because the human society and its courts simply will ignore any violations of a machine's rights.
Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by pmoriarty on Thursday March 16, 2023 @11:48PM (#35192804)
"You have no a priori right to copyright something because you fucked around with a prompt for a long time."

Rights are a legal fiction anyway, so there are no a priori rights to anything.

Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by dragonwriter on Thursday March 16, 2023 @11:52PM (#35192840)
Rights are consequences of valie decisions that cannot be deduced from facts, so there are only a priori rights.
Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by pmoriarty on Thursday March 16, 2023 @11:59PM (#35192914)
They're only consequences in the sense that definitions are consequences, because that's pretty much what a "right" is: a definition.

They don't exist before they are defined by humans, so in that sense they do not have an a priori existence.

Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by dragonwriter on Friday March 17, 2023 @12:21AM (#35193083)
> They’re only consequences in the sense that definitions are consequences,

A priori truths are, exactly and only, those things that are true by definition (and only exist within a particular axiomatic framework.)

You’ve described exactly why rights can only be a priori, but used it to deny that they are.

> They don’t exist before they are defined by humans, so in that sense they do not have an a priori existence.

If things exist before they are defined by humans and human knowledge of them comes as a result of experience with their existence, that knowledge is a posteriori. You’ve marshalled a cogent explanation of why rights cannot be known a posteriori, but then presented as an argument for why they cannot be a priori.

Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by pmoriarty on Friday March 17, 2023 @12:46AM (#35193245)
I think the difficulty we're having in communicating here is that I'm not using "a priori" in the Kantian sense as being in contrast to "a posteriori", but rather in the colloquial sense of "having a prior existence".

It's also irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make how or whether humans have knowledge of some pre-existing things (through experience or through some other means).

Since you brought up axiomatic frameworks, I'll have to differ on that as well, as I don't think the majority of humans that talk about rights do so based on any kind of axiomatic framework, but rather on their biases and because they've essentially been brainwashed in to thinking that way through education, socialization, the media, peer pressure, parenting, etc..

So my view and Kant's view on this differ significantly, and while I give him credit for these terms, I don't subscribe to his views and don't feel bound to use these terms in the way Kant or Kantians would have me use them.

Re:U.S. Copyright Office issues statement on works containin... by dragonwriter on Friday March 17, 2023 @01:12AM (#35193399)
> I think the difficulty we’re having in communicating here is that I’m not using “a priori” in the Kantian sense as being in contrast to “a posteriori”, but rather in the colloquial sense of “having a prior existence”.

“Having a prior existence” is very much what a posteriori is (a priori or a posteriori are epistemic terms, they don’t refer to the thing itself, but to our knowledge of the thing, if our knowledge is independent of our experience [as it is with things with no prior existence of their own] then it is a priori, if it is derived from experience [as it is for things that have prior natural existence rather than being pure products of intellect] it is a posteriori.)

Sure, if you reverse the definition of a priori, it applies to exactly the opposite of the things it usually applies to, but that’s probably not the best way to communicate. (And this is literally the first time I've ever heard the suggestion of an English "colloquial sense" of that phrase, which is used exclusively, in my experience, as a technical term of art in epistemology (and is used in English largely because an imported Latin technical term won't conflict with any colloquial understanding that might attach to a more natural English alternative.)

> > Since you brought up axiomatic frameworks, I’ll have to differ on that as well, as I don’t think the majority of humans that talk about rights do so based on any kind of axiomatic framework, but rather on their biases and because they’ve essentially been brainwashed in to thinking that way through education, socialization, the media, peer pressure, parenting, etc..

That’s still an axiomatic framework, its just one that is practically useless to discuss because each of the things which you might like to be conclusions dependent on logic and a smaller set of simple principles are just independent axioms not subject to debate. And, yes, its very common.