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Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by ed25519FUUU on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @03:21PM (#35173399)
As a prior ACLU supporter, I eventually switched over all of that monetary support to the EFF, whose litigation matches much closer to what I believe are broadly important civil liberties.

ACLU meanwhile seems obsessed with limiting my 1A right to free speech, which is baffling. Not even to mention 2A rights.

Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by Syonyk on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @03:29PM (#35173501)
The ACLU just is obsessed with sending me "push poll" sort of "surveys" in which they goal is to rile me up before the important "And how much will you donate?" question.

They're the mirror image of the "push poll" surveys I get from conservative groups. The amount of junkmail I get trying to ensure I'm outraged enough to open my wallet, from both sides, is entirely absurd. I guess that's what I deserve for subscribing to a range of magazines instead of plugging into the online outrage engines.

Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by throwaway894345 on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @03:43PM (#35173695)
Yeah, the ACLU definitely feels more like a political super PAC (the Democratic counterpart to the Koch brothers' Americans for Prosperity, perhaps) than it does a civil liberties union.
Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by jerry1979 on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @03:23PM (#35173428)
Out of curiosity, what did the ACLU do to limit 1A protections?
Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by Spivak on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @03:42PM (#35173666)
Absolutely nothing. The most damming thing you can really say they’ve been exercising their choice of what battles to fight to prefer sympathetic defendants when possible.

But they still go to bat for people you probably don’t like https://www.acluva.org/en/news/why-we-represented-alt-right-...

Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by JasonZ2 on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @03:31PM (#35173537)
> “The ACLU has been this nation’s leading defender of free speech for more than a century. We firmly believe that states cannot compel artists or anyone else to express messages with which they disagree. But[...]”

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/05/opinion/303creative-first...

> Writing in the Wall Street Journal on June 20, Kaminer notes that a recent internal ACLU memo on “case-selection guidelines” explicitly says that the cases the organization takes up may be influenced by “the extent to which the speech may assist in advancing the goals of white supremacists or others whose views are contrary to our values.” As Kaminer notes, “factors like the potential effect of the speech on ‘marginalized communities’ and even on ‘the ACLU’s credibility’ could militate against taking a case.”

I very much doubt the current ACLU would entertain another Skokie case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Party_of_Am...

Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by lacker on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @03:48PM (#35173756)
Here's a good article about the debate:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html

Basically, the ACLU used to be very focused on supporting the first amendment, and recently has shifted more to supporting progressive causes, even when they conflict with the first amendment.

Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by mrguyorama on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @04:22PM (#35174206)
Maybe they see that allowing literal nazi (by their own accord) organizations hasn't actually reduced their presence like some free speech absolutists seem to believe. If your ideology shows itself to not work, maybe you can change your ideology?
Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by briandear on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @05:14PM (#35174808)
Did the first amendment change?
Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by john_the_writer on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @06:54PM (#35175827)
I don't think free speech absolutists believe that. I think I'm an absolutist..

Here's a question I like to ask people who aren't.

Which member of your family would you give the power to tell you what you can't say. Pick one. Once you pick, you can't change your mind. For the rest of your life you have to only say what they let you.

Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by telotortium on Thursday March 16, 2023 @04:07PM (#35187687)
I for one would have donated to the old ACLU, but once I had grown up enough to be in the position to donate, they had changed their political strategy, so I will no longer donate to them.
Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by mminer237 on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @03:52PM (#35173808)
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html

They got a political rally in support of keeping civil war statues shut down by the government.

Their attorney stated that "Stopping the circulation of [Abigail Shrier's] book and these ideas is 100% a hill I will die on."

They applauded students and professors blocking reporters from documenting a protest.

They filed a brief in support of disciplining teachers for using the wrong pronouns.

They say they now consider various factors in whether or not to defend speech, including "the extent to which the speech may assist in advancing the goals of white supremacists or others whose views are contrary to our values".

Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by a_shovel on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @05:57PM (#35175298)
> They got a political rally in support of keeping civil war statues shut down by the government.

The only thing similar to that in the article is the Charlottesville protests, which the ACLU defended.

Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by pmarreck on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @03:26PM (#35173469)
What is baffling is your lack of provided evidence to that claim, which is a strong claim (which demands evidence) due to its conflict with the ACLU's own position document on the 1st Amendment:

https://www.aclu.org/other/freedom-expression-aclu-position-...

Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by ed25519FUUU on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @03:41PM (#35173644)
Shokie was almost 50 years ago. As an example, can you name a single recent court case where the ACLU defended speech against a "protected class"? Speech we all agree with doesn't need defending.
Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by Spivak on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @03:43PM (#35173677)
Re:Why We’re Suing to Protect Right of Incarcerated People t... by rnd0 on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @04:30PM (#35174300)
We're in the middle of a culture war here! there is literally no speech that we *ALL* agree on.