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Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by fwlr on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @08:53PM (#35162123)
I do see where your definition of a bailout is coming from, I don’t think it’s that weird. Perhaps the disconnect is that I’m assuming people would not hate a bailout that they actually genuinely really don’t pay anything for; they would press a button to bail out a sinking ship if it was really free to do so, even if the ship was sinking solely by incompetence on the part of the ship’s captain.

So the opposition to bailouts is actually “opposition to bailouts that cost taxpayers” plus an enormous dose of “we know you sneaky fuckers always lie about bailouts not costing taxpayers so we will assume all bailouts cost taxpayers”.

Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by sanderjd on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @09:18PM (#35162360)
The disconnect comes from the question of whether there is actually a magical thing where government can provide insurance to private entities without it costing society anything. Of course that magic doesn't actually exist. Public subsidies always cost something.

I liked this definition of what a bailout is, which meshes with mine but puts it in better words, via Dan Davies on today's Odd Lots podcast:

> "When the state steps in and provides insurance so that something economically destructive doesn't happen."

Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by fwlr on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @12:53PM (#35171158)
“ Of course that magic doesn't actually exist.”

Yeah, like I said, this is the disconnect. Assume for a moment that magic does exist. Maybe aliens come to Earth and hands the government a stack of gold from outside the solar system worth exactly that much, which the government uses to pay for the bank’s issues and nothing else, and then the aliens leave promising to never return. If that happens, it didn’t cost taxpayers anything, so it can’t be called a bailout, since bailouts necessarily cost the taxpayers. Except in another sense it is obviously a bailout, the aliens literally flew in from outer space and bailed out the bank and the government.

So a bank bailout is when an outside party pays to solve the issue, and a bailout is also when taxpayers foot the bill. If taxpayers do not foot the bill for SVB in any appreciable way, is it a bailout?

Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by sanderjd on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @01:09PM (#35171433)
Yep, as you said in the last sentence of your (pretty silly) hypothetical, the bank and the government were bailed out.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by dragonwriter on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @01:03PM (#35171312)
> I liked this definition of what a bailout is, which meshes with mine but puts it in better words, via Dan Davies on today's Odd Lots podcast:

> "When the state steps in and provides insurance so that something economically destructive doesn't happen."

So the FDIC existing is a bailout to start with, so arguing over whether SVB should get a bailout isn’t about the systemic risk exception being invoked at all, but about the existence of public deposit insurance in any form?

Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by sanderjd on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @01:07PM (#35171386)
Sure, the FDIC exists to bail out the insured depositors of failing banks.