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Re:Knots Smaller Than Human Hair Make Materials Unusually Tough by harperlee on Monday March 13, 2023 @09:11AM (#35135209)
Coincidentally I was looking into simulating rope and knots for a side project, and I don’t know how to really research this other than googling, does someone interested in these kinds of things know? I’d like to simulate friction and tensile strenghs, and other mechanical deformations (pulls, obviously).
Re:Knots Smaller Than Human Hair Make Materials Unusually Tough by bg46z on Monday March 13, 2023 @09:19AM (#35135306)
You could probably look at protein folding libraries like pymol. Although not exactly the same, it’s generally close enough to ropes and it has enough knobs where you should be able to run the simulations you want
Re:Knots Smaller Than Human Hair Make Materials Unusually Tough by gilleain on Monday March 13, 2023 @09:34AM (#35135495)
Hmmm. PyMol is molecular viewer, which has a python scripting interface to various libraries ... but is not a folding library I would say.

There is some research into the topology of DNA (especially circular DNA, like plasmids which is a knot) that considers things like writhe and twist. Not sure it would adapt too well to macroscopic systems though.

There is also the excellent KnotPlot for actually drawing the knots. I bought a licence once on a whim, but rarely use it :)

Re:Knots Smaller Than Human Hair Make Materials Unusually Tough by dekhn on Monday March 13, 2023 @07:14PM (#35144562)
Wouldn't really be helpful- first, pymol is a visualizer, not a folder. Also, proteins have properties very, very different from typical knots.

That does raise an interesting question- can proteins spontaneously fold into knots? The answer is yes although I was discouraged when I originally asked this question in grad school.

Re:Knots Smaller Than Human Hair Make Materials Unusually Tough by GistNoesis on Monday March 13, 2023 @11:27AM (#35137014)
Maybe you can look into (extended) position based dynamics https://positionbaseddynamics.readthedocs.io/en/latest/about... for ropes.

If knots are what's interest you more, then maybe you can have a look at the self-collision avoidance of "Repulsive Curves" http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~kmcrane/Projects/RepulsiveCurves/

Re:Knots Smaller Than Human Hair Make Materials Unusually Tough by AlotOfReading on Monday March 13, 2023 @02:05PM (#35139825)
In general, the interesting properties of real ropes are not well-modeled by simulation. Dirt, abrasion, water, stress concentrations, and other real factors will dramatically impact the results you get out in the real world. That's why these things are experimentally verified and ropes used in safety-critical applications (are supposed to) have huge safety margins, regular monitoring, and ideally regular replacement. Use the manufacturer numbers for real ropes.

But if you just want to simulate ropes, there's a few models out there from academics going "let's try and model this difficult system more accurately". Take a look at stuff like imc-der [0] and ridgerunner [1].

[0] https://github.com/QuantuMope/imc-der

[1] https://jasoncantarella.com/wordpress/software/ridgerunner/

Re:Knots Smaller Than Human Hair Make Materials Unusually Tough by dekhn on Monday March 13, 2023 @07:12PM (#35144540)
I've been curious about this too- there seems to be an underexplored area of physics around designing new knots with useful properties ("easy to untie under load") and it's not addressed by knot theory at al.