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Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by badrabbit on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @06:43PM (#35063055)
First of all, you don't freaking need your own new house to start a family. In most countries most people never buy a new house.

Second, wealth is not zero-sum, there isn't a magic pot of gold redistributed between people. As value and demand are added to the economy, so is wealth because the new young people with demands can provide skills or time to be used in value creation and then they also (and older folks that are not creating value because they are not working) can consume and create demand which defines the amount of wealth they create. Poor old people are a net negative but rich old people create demand and thus wealth for value creating youth, unless of course they have everything they need and live in the woods or something. But even poor old people need to eat and have health care demands that young people provide.

The forest you are missing for the trees here is the greed of corporations who are not increasing wages to keep up with not just inflation but the value young people are creating. Things like labor unions are a joke in the US and politicians need corporations like fish need water. So the profit margins of companies and the wealth of shareholders is increasing as a result of the young people who are creating that wealth and giving it away to them because they can't collectively bargain and say they want fair pay. as individuals they can be replaced easily if they don't like the compensation.

So this whole old people vs young people and millenials destroying things and boomers hoarding wealth and all that is bullshit.

The education in the US is shit, you can't compete in a global economy and keep up with wealth creation as a result (still at the top but getting closer to stagnation). And the US is essentially and oligarchy at this point. The richest country in the world and it is the rich share holding class that only care about amassing enough wealth that their descendants will make it through whatever shit the country goes through, so they don't care how much americans suffer or get robbed in day light.

This comes down to democracy being a game of information. Whoever controls information controls democracy and this means two things, education and media. You have so many idiots even young ones fall for the trump bullshit because of education and media/social media bubbles and it isn't an accident that education is shit either, it isn't an accident that racism and xenophobia and other hateful things are the tools the ruling class uses to manange democracy.

America embraced greed as a way of life and the greedy rule and we are finding out why greed is evil in all forms as If we are part of a fable people will tell their children ages from now to teach them to avoid greed and pride.

But not all hope is lost, information and disinformation are education and self education are still popular thanks to the internet. Americans need to pursue truth and justice and fight evil because nothing built on lies and evil lasts.

Democracy can still work, but if the voters embrace greed, the the result is what you see. Ask most americans what they think of basic welfare and they'll tell you it's just black people being lazy and taking from the government (in reality it is mostly not black people but why does race matter at all?). We all know greed and hated are wrong, we can't blame corporations and politicians when we choose hatred and greed, these things must be adressed before you can change the way things are done and have fair wages and a stable democracy and solve so many other major issues in the US.

Forgive the long post, let me know if you disagree.

Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by atleastoptimal on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @06:48PM (#35063107)
If we removed the electoral college in the US, or if voting day were a national holiday, all those issues would automatically be addressed.

The old and conservative make too powerful a voting block, and it perpetuates every corporate, oligarchic, xenophobic greed cycle one could point to as a rot in our system. I don't think old people are bad because they're just taking government money and have big fancy houses, but largely they do vote the same way and that way they are voting is causing problems.

> First of all, you don't freaking need your own new house to start a family. In most countries most people never buy a new house.

It's important to understand the similarities and differences between "need" and "precipitates conditions that massively increase the chance of", when it comes to demographic trends.

Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by amalcon on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @07:44PM (#35063656)
> if voting day were a national holiday

I see this suggestion a lot, but I struggle to understand what problem it's expected to solve. It certainly wouldn't help voter turn-out. Most service sector jobs (the kind where it's hard to get a couple of hours off to vote) require you to work more on national holidays, not less. It's mostly the relatively voting friendly office jobs that give the day off for a national holiday.

Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by j-krieger on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @07:49PM (#35063689)
The point is that it’s not like other national holidays. Stores are closed. You’ll manage.
Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by amalcon on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @07:50PM (#35063700)
If you plan to ask stores to close, they just won't. If you plan to require it, then the law won't pass.
Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by nicwilson on Wednesday March 08, 2023 @02:00AM (#35066073)
you don't need to make it a holiday, just doing it on a weekend should suffice. E.g. in Australia, elections, Federal, state and local are all held on Saturdays.

If you actually want to improve turnout, enact compulsory voting. That is much better, but still no silver bullet to electing sane competent and not corrupt politicians.

Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by tekla on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @08:50PM (#35064142)
The "all problems will be solved if all my political policies are implemented" seems to be a fairly insidious strain of authoritarianism that is infecting the progressives.
Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by cmyr on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @09:18PM (#35064371)
'insidious authoritarianism' is a curious way of describing two not-unreasonable proposals that are presumably aimed at making american democracy more representative and accessible...
Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by marcusverus on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @09:51PM (#35064600)
> The old and conservative make too powerful a voting block, and it perpetuates every corporate, oligarchic, xenophobic greed cycle one could point to as a rot in our system. I don't think old people are bad because they're just taking government money and have big fancy houses, but largely they do vote the same way and that way they are voting is causing problems.

You must have missed the part where they referred to human beings who they disagree with as "a rot in our system". The fact that you're apparently blind to such toxic rhetoric isn't surprising--it is increasingly common among progressives.

Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by bobwaycott on Wednesday March 08, 2023 @01:44AM (#35066001)
I believe you may have misread. They weren’t calling any specific group of humans a rot in our system. They said they believe a specific and overly powerful voting bloc perpetuates every corporate, oligarchic, xenophobic greed cycle one could point to as a rot in our system.

It’s not the voting humans who are labeled as the rot, it’s the cycles that result from the exercise of that bloc’s outsized voting power—as said in the second part of your quoted excerpt: “… that way they are voting is causing problems.”

I’m not suggesting the original wording was great and non-toxic, but I don’t think the poster said what you interpreted them as saying.

Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by bobwaycott on Wednesday March 08, 2023 @01:52AM (#35066033)
That fairly insidious strain of authoritarianism isn’t infecting progressives alone, sadly. Nor is it infecting progressives more. The “all problems will be solved if all my political policies are implemented” argument appears to be the starting line of most vocalized political positions.
Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by OrvalWintermute on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @10:25PM (#35064841)
>If we removed the electoral college in the US, or if voting day were a national holiday, all those issues would automatically be addressed.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

>The old and conservative make too powerful a voting block, and it perpetuates every corporate, oligarchic, xenophobic greed cycle one could point to as a rot in our system. I don't think old people are bad because they're just taking government money and have big fancy houses, but largely they do vote the same way and that way they are voting is causing problems.

Please refrain from toxic Othering.

Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by neilparikh on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @07:14PM (#35063380)
> wealth is not zero-sum

Land is zero sum. The easy (partial) solution to that is just to build more housing on the same land, except older homeowners spend their time blocking new housing, which has essentially turned housing into a zero sum market as well.

> greed of corporations who are not increasing wages

Increasing wages will do nothing if those wages end up chasing the same fixed amount of housing/land.

Now, people are going to point out that the US is a big country and there's lots of land and so on. And that's true, but a lot of the economic growth and opportunity is concentrated in the cities where housing growth is being blocked. The same problem occurs in Canada (and a few other Western developed countries too).

Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by lumost on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @06:53PM (#35063158)
You seem to be making an assumption that rich old people can consume their wealth. I suspect the reality is that they cannot and in many cases are obligate savers. This creates a problem for the economy as individuals may lack the capital to start new businesses, innovate, or grow the next generation.

Having a nation of renters renting from rich old oligarchs is not efficient. some redistribution may be necessary.

Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by WalterBright on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @07:34PM (#35063559)
This is the idea again that wealthy people hoard their money, and it must be liberated to benefit the economy.

The fact is, their money is not stored in Scrooge McDuck cash vaults. It's all invested in the economy.

Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by zamnos on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @07:52PM (#35063719)
But a lot of times it's invested in the economy to the worker's detriment. Look at the huge investments into real estate recently. Are the new landlords going to price units at something remotely affordable for someone on part-time minimum wage to raise a family in like it's still the 50's, or are they going to charge an unaffordable market rate? Resulting in people living with roommates into their 30's and beyond. More active participation in the market by the government would do wonders - real estate developers are in business to make money, which is what's lead to so many luxury condos. The government is able to pay market rate to blue collar workers who actually do the construction while not taking any profit, and thus are about to build units that are affordable by plebeians.

Another example of socially irresponsible investing is in any company that hires minimum wage employees for 39.5 hours a week, just under what's needed to qualify for company-sponsored health insurance. The market's slowly changing, but you're deluded if you think that's not still happening and that corporations are just happen to make small accidental practices that result in wage theft from employees, especially those at the bottom rungs.

There are bourgeoisie who pride themselves on their philanthropic work, and socially responsible investing, but greed's a more reliable driver for investments.

Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by lumost on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @10:52PM (#35065009)
The money isn’t sitting in a vault - but it also isn’t necessarily being consumed. In order to leave the vault it must be invested or more typically loaned. As the vault earns interest, a dynamic can emerge that consumers must borrow progressively larger sums in order to avoid bankruptcy.

This occurred in the Great Depression where inequality rose and in turn debt loads. The fed has papered over this problem by simply printing more money. However historically, the US faired better following the massive federal wealth redistribution that was ww2.

The US government can’t afford ww2 style spending programs, and increasing evidence shows that money printing isn’t helping the economy.

Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by WalterBright on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @11:59PM (#35065450)
> In order to leave the vault it must be invested or more typically loaned.

Which it is. All of it, except for the reserve requirement. The idea that wealthy people hoard money is simply not true. The money is put back to work in the economy.

Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by peyton on Wednesday March 08, 2023 @12:53AM (#35065727)
Reserve requirement is 0% in the US. Money supply is actively managed, so irrelevant. Hard assets are definitely hoarded compared to the past.
Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by WalterBright on Wednesday March 08, 2023 @10:50PM (#35078134)
Hard assets are paid for with money, which means the money isn't hoarded.
Re:France comes to standstill livid workers protest plan to ... by robwwilliams on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @07:13PM (#35063379)
Good rabbit. Lot of boomers/hippies agree. Not in sufficient numbers. You might like the writing of Richard Rorty.