I like the startup scene in NYC myself. Also, like Randy Newman, I love L.A. I think it is a much more “normal” place that the bay area.

Come on, SF is not a hellhole. It’s a place people seem to love or hate and it’s totally not for everyone but calling it a hellhole is 100% cap. Let’s be for real here and not exaggerate.

It has a level of homelessness and drug use that has shocked every American I've known who has visited in the last 5 years. It is on another level.

You say that as if it’s some big revelation. Everyone knows this by now, but I’m pushing back on the idea that the entire 7x7 is like this. It’s simply not.

Could you tell me with a straight face that the Richmond is a hellhole? The sunset? The marina? Noe? Glen park? pac heights? Bernal?

There’s a degree of nuance that is missing from the conversation. That is my point.

This 25 year old isn't moving to The Marina or Glen Park, some of the most expensive neighborhoods in the world. He's probably priced out of most of Oakland.

Even young people who can afford to live in pleasant parts of SF will be miserable because they'll be surrounded by rich, entitled tech people in their 40s+, not down-to-earth 20-somethings.

Of all the "cites" you named Chicago is the most affordable and an actual city. Te big difference is the tech scene isn't nuts like in SV, Austin, etc the money is a lot smaller and the expectations are a lot higher -companies that don't make money aren't funded very long. That said Chicago is ranked the #9 city in North America and # 19 in the world for Startups and as I said compared to other startups in other cities our startups tend to make money. Having been in IT in some capacity for the last 35 years I'd say the IT scene in Chicago is strange and lagging behind other cities for reasons I just can't understand but if I was 24 and from a small town looking for city life Chicago is where I'd want to be- NYC is a close second and it would be number one if the housing was cheaper.

I live in SF, and am from Denver and couldn't disagree more. The tech culture here is second to none, people still come from all over the world to work and study here. Myndvice to OP is to come to SF, get plugged into the tech and startup culture while your still young and can leverage that community and the empowerment that comes with it for the rest of their lives.

You can do those things in other cities too. You don't need to pay $6,000/mo in rent and step over human shit every day to succeed in tech.

My net worth is higher than my peers in SF even though I've earned less than them, and it's because the cost of living is out of control. It's not worth the marginal career benefit.

I pay $3200 for rent in a great location, a very nice loft.

Your right, you don't. You also don't need to go to MiT to succeed in tech - but it really helps.

I pay $2,800 for a 3,200 sqft house in a safe, walkable, quiet neighborhood near downtown with better weather than SF.

I'm not saying you can't have a good life in SF, but it's much more common to have a terrible life, and the (small) career opportunities aren't worth.

I also think SF has particularly bad startup culture because of the particular VCs there, but that's a matter of preference. I'd rather work on "boring" startups with gray-haired industry veterans than a moonshot with arrogant, unproven 28 year olds who went to Stanford.

It really sounds like you have a chip, or a few, on your shoulder.

My wife and I were born and educated in the Denver area. We owned a home in the area with a mortgage way less than thr rents were talking about here. We tried to live in the area while progressing my career but there are real limitations. Once we moved to the bay area my career totally blossomed. It was indeed a lifestyle change.

Back to the topic at hand, giving OP advice. He didn't post asking for advice on better cost of living, etc. He asked for advice on moving to SF. There is no substitute for your career than spending your younger years in a crucible like the bay area. It's good advice for them to move there while they're young and can take advantage of the connections made and knowledge learned for a lifetime.

You can say I have a chip on my shoulder because I think SF isn't worth it, but then so do a huge number of people who currently live there [1].

OP asked for advice about moving to SF based on misconceptions he has about career opportunities, so I feel good about telling him to reconsider (as most other people in the thread have).

1. https://thehill.com/homenews/nexstar_media_wire/3654062-thes...

No he doesn’t, it has completely devolved from the great city it once was. It’s painful to think about, I had / have so much love for that place, but it has become mismanaged to a complete s*ithole. Forget about ever raising a family there and trying to work in tech / startup world.