News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by ActorNightly on Friday March 03, 2023 @09:29PM (#35017538)
I seem to be in the minority, but I honestly don't get how people can develop productively on a laptop. The lack of full size keyboard, screen real estate, and uncomfortable touchpad compared to a mouse just feels horrible to me.
Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by mgkimsal on Friday March 03, 2023 @09:54PM (#35017680)
I’ve grown to hate using a mouse, and love the MacBook trackpad. Having your hands so close to both keyboard and trackpad means less travel time between.
Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by mouse_ on Friday March 03, 2023 @11:10PM (#35018083)
That's why I like trackpoint. Mouse without as much as moving your fingers from the home row.
Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by notpushkin on Saturday March 04, 2023 @06:19AM (#35020055)
I like the idea behind trackpoint, but I just can't get used to it. Any tips?
Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by torgoguys on Saturday March 04, 2023 @07:22AM (#35020307)
Force yourself to use it exclusively for a while, no cheating. For better (it's great) AND worse (you have fewer options for laptops), there's no going back after that. I love it and even use Trackpoint with my desktop computer.
Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by askiiart on Saturday March 04, 2023 @09:26AM (#35020940)
Are there any hot-swappaple mechanical keyboards with a trackpoint? The only mechanical keyboard with a trackpoint I can find is the Tex Yoda II, which isn't hot-swappaple, and is also very expensive.
Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by projektfu on Saturday March 04, 2023 @12:21PM (#35022542)
I had a Unicomp but the trackpoint wasn't as good as the Thinkpad* and it broke dead after about a year. Avoid.

*Thinkpad 560X! It was worse than a machine 17 years younger. I'm not sure which version the 560X had.

Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by mtrower on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:06PM (#35105192)
> it broke dead after about a year.

For clarification --- the trackpoint broke, right? Not the whole damn keyboard?

Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by mgkimsal on Saturday March 04, 2023 @10:08AM (#35021280)
I used a couple variations for about 2 years - Thinkpads with a red trackpoint thingy. never liked them. Continually felt unnatural and clunky. Mac trackpad was a game changer for me.

Glad you found something that works for you.

Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by yencabulator on Saturday March 04, 2023 @06:15PM (#35025485)
It really helps if you set up your environment to mostly not need accurate clicks. For example, avoid needing to grab window title bars or corners, use keyboard-driven window managers. Use keyboard commands instead of clicking buttons. When I last used a Thinkpad, the only time I had to aim at all was clicking links on web pages. I still used the trackpoint to switch active window, but it was a "shove toward upper right", not aiming the pointer at anything (I liked the spatial aspect of it, compared to keybindings).

I also had it configured to move significantly faster on strong input, and slow down with gentle input.

Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by mouse_ on Sunday March 05, 2023 @05:23PM (#35034782)
The way I have my trackpoint set up (low sensitivity, no acceleration) makes it more accurate than trackpad, even. No acceleration means it always behaves extremely predictably; for me it's most useful when typing in forms and clicking around in them. It's extremely accurate and useful when set up properly. You can make tons of fine, precise movements and clicks when filling out documents and forms without even needing to move your hands from the keyboard.
Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by yencabulator on Sunday March 05, 2023 @05:46PM (#35035017)
Low sensitivity and no acceleration means it takes a very long time to move from one side of screen to the other. I guess I really don't fill in many forms where I can't tab between fields. But many of my habits also predate mainstream availability of GUIs...
Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by ActorNightly on Sunday March 05, 2023 @04:32AM (#35028141)
True, but in terms of development, the main use of mouse is really selecting text for copy and paste (unless you are hardcore vim user), and scrolling.

Id be impressed if the speed at which you can select text accurately is higher on the trackpad than a mouse. I have seen lots of developers at work on their macbooks do the standard select text->copy->paste, and everyone is way slower at this then people who use mouse.

Maybe its my FPS gaming days that make me better at this, but then again, nobody really plays FPS seriously using trackpads

Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by mgkimsal on Monday March 06, 2023 @01:57PM (#35045869)
Not a gamer - haven't 'gamed' since pitfall - so no experience with mouse vs trackpad in that respect.

What seems missing from all this is the notion of gestures. The two finger scroll, single finger pointer move, pinch/zoom, etc - the trackpad is flexible in ways a trackpoint thing just can't be.

"I have seen lots of developers at work on their macbooks do the standard select text->copy->paste, and everyone is way slower at this then people who use mouse."

Not really sure what you're getting at. Selecting with a... trackpoint can be faster than using a mouse? Maybe, for some people. I'm constantly surprised by mouse-using/GUI people who always do so much more with a mouse than you need to. But I'm not sure that takes away any argument from the mac trackpad.

Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by mtrower on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:10PM (#35105216)
> Not really sure what you're getting at.

Pretty sure they're saying that mouse accuracy trumps trackpad for cut/paste operations.

> What seems missing from all this is the notion of gestures. The two finger scroll, single finger pointer move, pinch/zoom, etc - the trackpad is flexible in ways a trackpoint thing just can't be.

Yeah, these are great. You can get the best of both worlds on a Magic Mouse, though.

Personally I do alright with a trackpad, but I also lean heavily on the keyboard regardless of auxiliary input devices. In particular, I don't do pointer-heavy workloads like e.g. image editing.

Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by apatheticonion on Friday March 03, 2023 @10:10PM (#35017777)
The MacBook desktop environment combined with the trackpad (and gestures) are a big contributor to being productive in that context (though it also sucks so bad in some scenarios).

Swipe left, swipe right, terminal, editor, browser, etc.

Swipe up, see all open windows.

Before long I am using a single laptop monitor about as effectively as a multi monitor desktop setup.

In general though, companies tend to issue laptops. So even if you have a desktop setup with multi monitors, keyboard, mouse (which I do and use daily), it will be backed by a laptop on a dock.

Personally, I like being able to work out and about. I work from cafes, planes, poolsides, my couch, my bed. That style of work limits your hardware choices

Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by retrac on Saturday March 04, 2023 @12:13AM (#35018395)
To the last point, I have a tiny Bluetooth mouse. Not much bigger than the single AAA battery that powers it. I don't know how I managed to use laptops without one before. (Usually with a full-sized wired mouse, come to think.) I also prefer a traditional keyboard and large screens and so I normally use a desktop. But if you need portable, you need portable.
Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by kalleboo on Saturday March 04, 2023 @12:46AM (#35018539)
I prefer an (Apple) trackpad to a mouse to the point where I even have one now at my desk setup. I've used BetterTouchTool to configure custom gestures like three-finger swipe to open new tab/close window, rotate left/right to switch tabs etc.
Re:ARM64 Linux Workstation by pid-1 on Saturday March 04, 2023 @08:37AM (#35020678)
You can use a dock station and have the best of both worlds: mobility and high quality peripherals and mobility is not needed.