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Re:EU will require Apple to open up iMessage by sangnoir on Thursday March 02, 2023 @12:52PM (#34999156)
> The whole point of market economies is to let people vote with their resources.

How do negative externalities and imperfect information figure into that? Sure, I'd love to buy Monsanto's awesome defoliant because it's cheaper than BASF's equivalent, but I may also get cancer from it in 5 years, or I may be killing pollinating insects for many miles downwind and downstream.

Do you suppose market forces could have gotten rid of lead in paint or gasoline if regulations hadn't?

Re:EU will require Apple to open up iMessage by bratwurst3000 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @01:40PM (#34999865)
Hehe some would say bad products wouldnt be sold for long but the truth is that most bad products are not gone because the market dictated it but because of regulations ;)
Re:EU will require Apple to open up iMessage by hellojesus on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:35PM (#35000690)
Regulation is a useful tool when there is quantifiable harm to an involuntary third party. That is not the case here. People have an infinite amount of electronic communication tools and services from which to choose. These are all voluntary without negative externalities causing harm on individuals outside the conversation (or outside the site when relating to the cookie policy).
Re:EU will require Apple to open up iMessage by feanaro on Thursday March 02, 2023 @04:17PM (#35002207)
> People have an infinite amount of electronic communication tools and services from which to choose.

Due to network effects of communication tools, this is not really true.

Re:EU will require Apple to open up iMessage by hellojesus on Thursday March 02, 2023 @06:38PM (#35003637)
Network effects can be overcome locally, by talking with your contacts and getting them to move to a new app/communication mechanism. It takes time, but compelling arguments will win in the end.
Re:EU will require Apple to open up iMessage by areeh on Friday March 03, 2023 @07:00AM (#35008402)
I think one of the big missing pieces in your parent comment about choice and negative externalities has to do with this network effect and I do not think the argument that it can be overcome locally is a very compelling counter.
Re:EU will require Apple to open up iMessage by hellojesus on Friday March 03, 2023 @03:21PM (#35014534)
It certainly is a difficult thing to do, but we see it happen time and time again. TikTok is now the biggest app, and it was nowhere a few years ago. Same with things like Insta, What's app, Signal, etc.

It is definitely a hard thing to overcome but not impossible. Especially as people become more privacy focused. I, for example, have had zero luck moving my family to Signal, and I'm the only non iPhone in the family network with my grapheneos phone and receive constant complaints about how I mess up group threads.

Re:EU will require Apple to open up iMessage by rootusrootus on Thursday March 02, 2023 @08:05PM (#35004440)
> Do you suppose market forces could have gotten rid of lead in paint or gasoline if regulations hadn't?

Yes. Consider how cars have become incredibly safe over the years. Is this because the government writes good regulations? No. It is because IIHS (and the government, as well) do crash tests and publish the results. Consumers gravitate towards cars that have top safety ratings.

Ironically, the government is why leaded gasoline still exists at all.