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Re:Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker... by jillesvangurp on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @09:41AM (#34804398)
The thing is that if Toyota wants to be a leader in this space, they should not wait for this to happen but be making it happen. The reality is that they have not been doing that. And others have.

If they wanted to be a leader in this space, five years ago would have been late to start putting in place the strategy, infrastructure, supply chains, etc. you need to build EVs. They did not do much five years ago other than insisting that they did not need to. And really, ten years ago would have been better, that's when Tesla started looking like a serious company and making concrete plans for scaling their business.

I don't see Toyota shipping EVs in volume any time soon. The new CEO is likely to have been tasked to actually start making this happen. But it's not going to happen overnight because they haven't built any factories yet, they haven't secured any battery supplies yet. They've built a few proof of concept / compliance cars that they are struggling to build in meaningful numbers and that they've had to withdraw from the market because of construction issues repeatedly. When they do start doing this, they'll have a little learning curve to master.

So, the new CEO has his work cut out.

As for being convinced about scale, the market volume is now millions of cars per year. Soon tens of millions. Tesla is a market leader with a target of getting to 2 million cars per year this year (up from 1 this year). And their cars are now the #1 best selling cars in many markets. They have really juicy margins on their products. It's a proven market with high margins and high volume at this point. Tesla is not alone in this market and there are quite a few other manufacturers also starting to move some serious volume. Any of those have what Toyota does not have: volume, scale, and proven products being sold as fast as they can be produced.

The technology is there. The infrastructure is there and rapidly expanding to keep up with supply and demand. New battery factories are being announced and opened all the time. We'll soon be measuring the collective output of these factories in twh per year rather than the hundreds of gwh per year it is right now.

Toyota if it wants in has a lot of catching up to do.

Re:Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker... by brobdingnagians on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @09:46AM (#34804480)
The future has a funny habit of being different than we anticipate. I think this might be one of those cases, but time will tell.
Re:Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker... by starkd on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @10:55AM (#34805512)
Going all in on EV's is also a very big gamble. Sure, there is probably a profitable segment in the market, but with so many other car companies going all-in, Toyota could be in a good position by having a wider line-up of products. There is something very strange about the herd mentality around EV's. As if we are going to fix the environment if only everybody gets an EV for ALL use cases.
Re:Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker... by polalavik on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @02:55PM (#34809687)
Why is it a gamble when almost 100% percentage of the largest auto makers have gone all in? They will do all they can to make sure EVs do not fail, infrastructure availability does not fail, laws are made, etc because it is now in their best financial interest to do so, together.
Re:Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker... by starkd on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @04:09PM (#34810597)
Because some people do not WANT it and prefer ICE or hybrid vehicles. It's a very big world with alot of different use cases. A smart business strategy diversifies.
Re:Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker... by jillesvangurp on Thursday February 16, 2023 @03:35AM (#34816409)
I think the misguided gamble at this point is hoping/expecting the EV market to implode and stop rapidly overtaking and outgrowing everything else. That clearly is not happening or going to happen.

This is not about herd mentality but about not ignoring very real and tangible trends in the market that are starting to affect Toyota's core business in very real ways. Mumbling about hydrogen and vaguely asserting there might be some EVs in the distant future is no longer good enough as a plan. And as a stop gap solution, hybrids are not growing as fast as EVs and mostly at the cost of ICE vehicles. Which means an overall decline for Toyota. Hybrids are no longer good enough and might be banned from key markets entirely along with ICE vehicles on a time line that is getting uncomfortably close for Toyota.

That's the reason for the change of leadership at Toyota. This stuff is starting to make share holders very nervous.

Re:Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker... by starkd on Thursday February 16, 2023 @09:20AM (#34818942)
Toyota does produces EVs. But just because the EV market share is growing does not mean it is going to completely displace everything else. In a competitive marketplace, consumer choice forces the improvement of EVs in such a way that they are not a merely substandard alternatives. We do not know where research is heading or what the true limits are to battery improvements. It takes the consumer marketplace to serve as an adequate test bed for a quality product.

EV's are still inferior products for many users. EV Advocates like to point to fast acceleration as somehow proof they are superior. But what they leave out is that every time you accelerate you see the charge capacity noticeably drop to significant degree. On extended trips, EV drivers will be making conscious efforts to engage in slower more moderate driving. Some people are fine with it, but the fact that many choose to go back to ICE vehicles should not be ignored.

Re:Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker... by rr808 on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @05:10PM (#34811424)
Toyota has a lot of PHEVs now. The RAV4 Prime is awesome if you can get one. It isn't very difficult to change a PHEV to an BEV.
Re:Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker... by jillesvangurp on Thursday February 16, 2023 @03:38AM (#34816433)
Sure, but a good BEV is designed very differently than a PHEV and designing them properly has cost benefits and is an overall better product for customers as well (better range, more space inside, etc.). There are plenty of existing manufacturers who have gone down that path and are now shifting attention to getting rid of ICE/PHEV entirely. Also, you need access to battery supply.