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Re:Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train... by yunwal on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @05:11PM (#34796907)
> But they can also directly sample the water to figure out if the HCL levels are dangerous for human consumption or contact, and I've seen no reporting to suggest that is the case

But they have not yet done this, and tests are a week out. FEMA hasn't provided food or resources to residents of East Palestine. Churches in Youngstown are traveling en masse to provide any kind of support. There's videos of entire coops of chickens dying out. But oh, this is all just a misunderstanding? Sorry, but are you f***ing kidding me? When are you gonna start looking with your eyes rather than listening to what people with clear conflicts-of-interest are telling you? I bet you thought there was nothing to be done about Uvalde too, huh?

Re:Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train... by shadowgovt on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @05:22PM (#34797035)
> There's videos of entire coops of chickens dying out

There is currently a rampant bird flu ripping through the US shared between wildlife and farm chickens with a 90%-100% mortality over 48 hours. This is exactly the kind of situation human threat-assessment is bad at.

I know experts make mistakes, but replacing expert wisdom with "the guesses of the masses" is a bad idea in general. I don't trust Norfolk Southern, but I trust a mob a darn sight less.

Re:Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train... by yunwal on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @05:47PM (#34797338)
> I know experts make mistakes

This is where you're wrong. Experts don't make mistakes in situations like this. They consistently [0] downplay [1] every [2] environmental [3] disaster [4] and withhold information from neutral parties until it loses the public's attention. When are we going to stop acting like this isn't standard operating procedure? When are we going to assume that this is default behavior of people responsible for disasters?

[0] - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-toxic-cover-up/

[1] - https://www.history.com/news/chernobyl-disaster-coverup

[2] - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-oil-rig-leak-idUSTRE6430A...

[3] - https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/flint-water-crisis/six-mor...

[4] - https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/05/california-finds-pge-equipme...

Re:Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train... by shadowgovt on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @06:00PM (#34797459)
If you have specific evidence of what exposure to (burned, trace amounts of) vinyl chloride might do, or its denatured byproducts (besides the HCL, which probably killed some fish), feel free to share them. An anecdote about dead chickens isn't that without a causal link (and the current rampant bird flu is a far more likely explanation).

"We don't really know" is simply false. This isn't a mystery chemical; we've been working with the stuff since 1835, we've spilled it into the environment numerous times, and we are decently familiar with it enough that even given experts with vested interests will downplay the risks, I have no reason to believe panic is in order. It's not safe to swim in, I wouldn't spread it on toast, but it's a well-known HAZMAT story with a well-understood mitigation.

While NPR reported there were concerns from citizens, they also went looking for people who would provide causes for concern in their reporting and found none: not only from the rail company (where you wouldn't expect to find them), but from anywhere. The largest concerns expressed were from an OSU professor that said to wash surfaces and look out for low-lying areas. Plenty of chemical experts would have plenty to gain contradicting the party line if the party line were untrue; the fact we don't see them really should indicate in this case that there's (no pun intended) no fire here.

What is your goal in this exchange?

Re:Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train... by yunwal on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @06:26PM (#34797730)
I would like for these coverups to lose their effectiveness. I'd like for executives that gamble with human lives and the environment to be held responsible. I would like politicians and media organizations that repeatedly enable them to lose credibility. I would like the concerns of railroad workers to be taken seriously. I'd like for journalists to not be wrongfully arrested for doing their jobs. I'd like for the safety precautions for carrying hazardous materials to be enforced. I'd like to have institutions that I can more or less trust to tell me the truth.
Re:Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train... by shadowgovt on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @07:08PM (#34798136)
Then I'm sorry because this isn't the disaster you're hoping for. But take heart, people continue to use technology so another disaster will certainly come along.

> It has never been burned at anywhere near this quantity

I'm curious your source for that assertion.

https://www.csb.gov/formosa-plastics-vinyl-chloride-explosio...