Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC...
by kodah on Monday February 06, 2023 @05:58PM
(#34685752)
> Ok, and my point is that doing the exact same thing as those people did in the past isn't doing better
This occurs to this day. I do agree that repeating bad patterns doesn't do us any favors but if you'd like to move that needle, you need to sign on the largest groups first.
> All intersectionality does is create a competition for the most oppressed
This is not true. I can't give you a hip pocket introduction to intersectionality in a thread, but I can at least clarify things for you. There is no "hierarchy of oppression" in intersectionality. Not at least in any reading I've done, but as in all philosophies - beware who you read. The best short description I've found is this, "Intersectionality is the acknowledgement that everyone has their own unique experiences of discrimination and oppression and we must consider everything and anything that can marginalise people – gender, race, class, sexual orientation, physical ability". The key takeaway here is that oppression is just oppression, the topic makes no inclination as to what's worse. Someone who got bullied for having a southern accent in a northern state could've had a measurably worse experience than someone who was marginalized for their physical ability. Point being, intersectionality doesn't make a distinction between them. Instead, intersectionality promotes meeting people where they are and attempting to be thoughtful about how you approach those cases.
While I do agree that perpetual victimhood is not good, there is no accepted timeline to stop seeing yourself as a victim of something. Rather, the steps you can take after you stop seeing yourself as a victim are far more profound in your happiness.
> Name a country where this hasn't happened. There are many where this is still happening and to a further extent than anything in the US.
I can't. I'm not sure there's a point here on your end. We had high minded goals, saying we should do better is a reminder of those high minded goals and our own roots as Americans. It's not to rub your nose in some dirty history. Anyone that expects a perfect society is already starting from the wrong place.
Your last statement veers onto intersectionality tracks and then derails suddenly. The reason intersectionality matters isn't to promote the most suffered people on the planet to the top. It's so that you as a human can understand them and they can understand you without your significantly different life experiences making you think each other are aliens or villains.
This occurs to this day. I do agree that repeating bad patterns doesn't do us any favors but if you'd like to move that needle, you need to sign on the largest groups first.
> All intersectionality does is create a competition for the most oppressed
This is not true. I can't give you a hip pocket introduction to intersectionality in a thread, but I can at least clarify things for you. There is no "hierarchy of oppression" in intersectionality. Not at least in any reading I've done, but as in all philosophies - beware who you read. The best short description I've found is this, "Intersectionality is the acknowledgement that everyone has their own unique experiences of discrimination and oppression and we must consider everything and anything that can marginalise people – gender, race, class, sexual orientation, physical ability". The key takeaway here is that oppression is just oppression, the topic makes no inclination as to what's worse. Someone who got bullied for having a southern accent in a northern state could've had a measurably worse experience than someone who was marginalized for their physical ability. Point being, intersectionality doesn't make a distinction between them. Instead, intersectionality promotes meeting people where they are and attempting to be thoughtful about how you approach those cases.
While I do agree that perpetual victimhood is not good, there is no accepted timeline to stop seeing yourself as a victim of something. Rather, the steps you can take after you stop seeing yourself as a victim are far more profound in your happiness.
> Name a country where this hasn't happened. There are many where this is still happening and to a further extent than anything in the US.
I can't. I'm not sure there's a point here on your end. We had high minded goals, saying we should do better is a reminder of those high minded goals and our own roots as Americans. It's not to rub your nose in some dirty history. Anyone that expects a perfect society is already starting from the wrong place.
Your last statement veers onto intersectionality tracks and then derails suddenly. The reason intersectionality matters isn't to promote the most suffered people on the planet to the top. It's so that you as a human can understand them and they can understand you without your significantly different life experiences making you think each other are aliens or villains.