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Re:The Rise of Universities’ Diversity Bureaucrats (2018) by SpeedilyDamage on Monday February 06, 2023 @12:27AM (#34673724)
There are no lowered expectations, nothing I've said and nothing being supported by affirmative action has that effect, but the Bush speechwriter you're unknowingly quoting wanted to turn the tables on reformers, to make it seem like providing aid to correct for problems that have nothing to do with who these people actually are was somehow their fault; that they were lesser for gaining the benefit of a leveled playing field.

I always find it funny when people talk about "lowered expectations" Do you realize what you reveal about your own views when you say that? You're telling the world how you see minority groups as "lesser"; the only way they can succeed, according to you, is with the help being provided. How completely wrong and wildly ignorant of the actual goals and effects of affirmative action.

I've read the paper you linked before you linked it. I'm generally versed in this topic. The Brookings paper is relatively famous, but it's extremely narrowly focused, and doesn't even remotely conclude what you're trying to say here.

Ironically though, I gave you a dozen papers/articles to read, and you replied nearly instantly. This feels like an instance of projection; where you didn't read anything I have given you, but are not accusing me of doing what you yourself perpetrated.

Not only are you wrong, you're alone. Nearly nobody agrees with you who has worked in this space, the consensus is not on your side. Which is good for me and the push for equity, but is tiresome, cumbersome, and harmful in the meantime.

Re:The Rise of Universities’ Diversity Bureaucrats (2018) by Manuel_D on Monday February 06, 2023 @12:35AM (#34673761)
> Not only are you wrong, you're alone. Nearly nobody agrees with you who has worked in this space, the consensus is not on your side. Which is good for me and the push for equity, but is tiresome, cumbersome, and harmful in the meantime.

Actually, you're the one that's more alone in your support for racial discrimination than I am. The majority of Black people (62%) oppose the use of race in university admissions: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/25/most-americ...

I find it odd that you don't even know the views of the people you're supposedly supporting. Nearly two thirds of Black people disagree with you. Yet you claim I'm alone in my views despite being in agreement with the majority of Black Americans.

> I always find it funny when people talk about "lowered expectations" Do you realize what you reveal about your own views when you say that? You're telling the world how you see minority groups as "lesser";

I agree: that's exactly why racial discrimination is counterproductive. Do you not see the message you're sending when you expect an Asian student to be in the top 5% and a Black student to be in the top 50% for the same role? Do you realize what this says about your own views when this kind of scheme is implemented? And yes, disparities of that magnitude are what universities are applying: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/06/23/a-lawsuit...

And you haven't given me a single paper. Changes are you're mistaking me with another commenter: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34673386

Re:The Rise of Universities’ Diversity Bureaucrats (2018) by SpeedilyDamage on Monday February 06, 2023 @12:36AM (#34673768)
Nothing I've said supports racial discrimination, and if that's what you're getting out of what I'm saying, you're reading what you've written, not what I've written.

What MLK has to say on this topic:

> “Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic.”

> “A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro.”

> “A section of the white population, perceiving Negro pressure for change, misconstrues it as a demand for privileges rather than as a desperate quest for existence. The ensuing white backlash intimidates government officials who are already too timorous.”

I am not alone. You are, full stop.

And you found my comment almost instantly. Comments are not "to" any individual or person, they're free to be read by anyone. I haven't confused anything, I simply understand how HN works.